Norwegian in Denmark

[Peter Hanson]

...or vice versa.

 

I posted this on the Transcribing Help forum and Ivar Ertesvag help me out...but I'd like to see if anyone has more ideas on the meaning.

 

The entry (Danish record) for Sophie in Feb 1749 notes parents as Lieutenant (Løjtnant) Christiansen and Catrine Lorentzdatter. Niels and Catrine also had a son Christian Nielsen in 1746 (page 91), and Christian moved to Fet, Akershus by 1772; he married five times and lived at Bianæs, Gata, Strandbaaken in Rælingen, Raasok and Nordbye farms. The record for his sister Sophie has a short word after Christiansen that Ivar believed is "jirt".  It looks that way to me too now, but I can't translate it into anything meaningful nor find a town in the vicinity. These records are in Tinlev, Frestup, and Eggebaek area of Denmark (used to be in center of Duchy of Schleswig, but is now near the German border). I hoped the word would give me an idea of where Niels Christiansen came from...I don't know if he was a Danish Lieutenant and his son moved to Norway or if he was Norwegian himself and stationed in South Jutland.

 

https://arkivalieronline.rigsarkivet.dk/en/billedviser?epid=17217358#202663,38419611

[Jan H. Trelsgård]

I would read the fathers name as "Laust Christians: Hirt" and not "Lieut:" as in Lieutenant.

Laust is used as a first name in Denmark. In the referred church books from Tinglev you will for instance find "Laust Hansen aus Terkelsbøll" married in 1744: https://arkivalieronline.rigsarkivet.dk/en/billedviser?epid=17217358#202663,38419546

 

[Peter Hanson]

Thank you Jan. It was about 12 years ago that a Norwegian-speaking cousin of mine had indicated Løjtnant in his son Christian's record, so I have run with that since then. I will certainly revisit this! 

[Jan H. Trelsgård]

1 time siden, Peter Hanson skrev:

Thank you Jan. It was about 12 years ago that a Norwegian-speaking cousin of mine had indicated Løjtnant in his son Christian's record, so I have run with that since then. I will certainly revisit this! 

 

I think you need to look elsewhere for Christian Nielsen.

I read "Laust Christiansen" as the name of the father of Christian born 1746 in Tinglev sogn (page 91) https://arkivalieronline.rigsarkivet.dk/en/billedviser?epid=17217358#202663,38419608 

[Peter Hanson]

Ok thanks! Knowing the Fet records showed him as born around 1746 in Tinglev/Frestrup, my cousin must've thought this was the correct one. Dang! Need to search again for Christian born to a Niels....

[Richard Olsen]

Peter Hanson

 

Comparing the handwriting of the given name and Christiansen  appears to give the spelling Laist (Loist).

Endret Mai 21, 2024 av Richard Olsen

[Richard Olsen]

Why are you looking for a Christian Nielsen?. Your post lacks details. Is Sofie the correct person, daughter of L Christiansen and Catrine L.?

Endret Mai 21, 2024 av Richard Olsen

[Peter Hanson]

Richard, my 4x great grandmother was Mari Nielsdatter, born 1804 in Holte, Fet to Niels Christiansen and Margrethe Madsdatter. Niels was born in 1777 Strandbaaken in Rælingen, Fet to Christian Nielsen and Mari Olsdatter.  The family lived at Raasok, Nordbye, Bianæs, and Gata farms in Fet.  Christian Nielsen married Mari Olsdatter in 1772 Fet and the marriage record indicates she was from Bianæs (originally from Klokkerud) and he was from Frestrup. That reference is what led us to Tinglev, Denmark. Christian married four more times. In 2012 my distant cousin located the referenced Danish record. He was better than I at the handwriting and the language, so I thought it made sense. I need to look back at the other Norwegian records for Christian Nielsen to see if his first marriage was the only indication of a Danish birth town. 1801 Census had him living at Raasok while working at Nordbye, and I think that was the only record that gave idea of birth year (1746ish). He had a daughter Dorthe Catrine in 1773, who died in 1791, and a daughter Birthe in 1776 who died as an infant. Christian married Kirsti Christophersdatter in 1781, Margrethe Andersdatter in 1789, Marit Larsdatter in 1793 and Ingeborg Engersdatter in 1804 and had 11 children in total. This comes from my "database" but I will go back to records to check for location (but think records after 1772 only indicated his current residences). {I had assumed Sophie was the sister of Christian based on the two Danish records referenced above...I only asked questions about that record since I thought the "jirt/hirt" word after the father's name might lead me to more info.  It apparently has, but now being told it isn't the correct family is not what I hoped!!!}

[Peter Hanson]

For daughter Dorthe Catrine: since Dorthe was Mari's mothers name and Catrine was the assumed mother in the <incorrect> record, we thought things fit together.

[Jan H. Trelsgård]

"Ungkarl Christian Nielsen Frestrup" and "Pigen Mari Olsd:r  Bianæs" marriage July 19th 1772: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061031040728

 

The book "Bygdehistorie for Fet" has the following information about Christian and Mari: 

[Richard Olsen]

https://www.geni.com/people/Kristian-Frestrup/6000000019494358455

[Jan H. Trelsgård]

This could perhaps be the correct one: Christian Fristrup - Ministerialbok for Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet prestegjeld 1743-1786 (0301M12) - Digitalarkivet

"Christian Fristrup" Baptism in Oslo Domkirke February 20th 1748: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061005010281

Parents: "Niels Gundersen" and "Catharina Knudsdatter".

 

Endret Mai 22, 2024 av Jan H. Trelsgård

[Peter Hanson]

28 minutes ago, Jan H. Trelsgård said:

This could perhaps be the correct one: Christian Fristrup - Ministerialbok for Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet prestegjeld 1743-1786 (0301M12) - Digitalarkivet

"Christian Fristrup" Baptism in Oslo Domkirke February 20th 1748: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061005010281

Parents: "Niels Gundersen" and "Catharina Knudsdatter".

 

Thanks Jan. I'll keep that one as a possibility. I have another branch that was in Oslo, but this would be an outlier of this branch.  From the way they note the name, does it seem like Fristrup is a middle name rather than a location (whereas the marriage record indicated location)?  Also, several years ago I thought maybe Christen or Christan was another spelling of Christian, but I was told they were two different names. Is Niels and Nils really just two different spellings of the same?

 

1 hour ago, Richard Olsen said:

https://www.geni.com/people/Kristian-Frestrup/6000000019494358455

Thanks Richard. This does look like it matches the correct family...but I think it may also be based on the <incorrect> parents, and uses the same "Lojt." and Catrine I had before. Anyway, I can try to reach out to the owner to see (the descendants etc. is useful even if the parents are not correct).

[Jan H. Trelsgård]

16 minutter siden, Peter Hanson skrev:

Thanks Jan. I'll keep that one as a possibility. I have another branch that was in Oslo, but this would be an outlier of this branch.  From the way they note the name, does it seem like Fristrup is a middle name rather than a location (whereas the marriage record indicated location)?  Also, several years ago I thought maybe Christen or Christan was another spelling of Christian, but I was told they were two different names. Is Niels and Nils really just two different spellings of the same?

 

"Christian Fristrup" would be the child's first name. He would likely be named after a person with that name, i. e. a person with Christian as first name and Fristrup as last name. 

In the church book from Oslo Domkirke (1743-1786) there is a matching person being buried in 1747: January 25th: "afgl: Christian Fristrups studiosus liig, gl: 28 aar" (i. e. buried the late Christian Fristrup's, students, corpse, 28 years old). https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061005010427

I do not know who Christian Fristrup (d. 1747) was. A guess would be that he was related to Christian Fristrup's (b. 1748) parents. 

 

When it comes to names and spellings Christian and Christen have the same origin but would normally be used as two different names. Nils and Niels are just to different spellings of the same name.

 

Endret Mai 22, 2024 av Jan H. Trelsgård

[Anita Holck]

Christianus Fristrup immatrikulert Københavns Universitet 31. Juli 1738, 20 år gammel, E privata (s. 593)

https://genealogi.no/3d-flip-book/kobenhavns-universitets-matrikkel-1667-1740-bind-2/