Ancestor Was Born Illegitimately And Having a Hard Time Finding Grandparents

[AveryFB]

Hello everyone, so essentially my ancestor is Anette Hansine Halvorsdatter/Svensen 1851-1922

 

Her birth records lists both parents but she is listed as Illegitimate so I have no been able to figure out her Grandparents on either side as I don't know how without a marriage record.

 

Birth  1851 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000005166083

 

Marriage 1872 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000004451895

 

Census 1875 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052041002966

 

Her Profile on Ancestry (Requires Subscription To View) https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/165651974/person/402153167544/facts

 

On the birth record for Anette she is listed as born in Skaalevig. The place name is written in the column for birth date with no further explanation. Furthermore there is an explanation at the end of the column for name of parents, saying roughly:

Note: the parents, who appear to be engaged to be married, stayed temporarily at Skaalevig while traveling to Bergen.

 

(OBS Forældrene, der skal være forlove...[cut off by the black shadow between left and right page] tog [or 'toge', the oldfashioned plural] in paa Skaalevig paa en Reise til Bergen og ag...[probably 'agdtede', again partially obliterated by the shadow) ...[? either 'uopholdelig' or 'opholdelig', that is either without pause or after a pause] at begive sig til deris ...[?Hjembygd?]

My reading is that the father was 'sea faring' (Sö Farende), and it is possible that the word before Sö was Ungkarl -that is, he was not mar

ried.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060227040870 Confirmation of Annette 

 

Probably Annette 1865 census

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038027039865

 

Annettes Parents 1853 Stilborn Still listed as unmarried. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000003116351

 

In the original record here, the father is Matros Halvor Svendsen, and they are listed as living at Lakkegaden, which is also where Anette is found in the 1865 census. The deceased child is described as uægte (born out of wedlock) so the parents were still not married in 1853.

 

Stillborn 1856 seemingly also them but unsure 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/267/pg00000006009687

 

 

Here is another thread I have about it on a different forum.

 

https://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7443&whichpage=2

 

Hopefully someone can give me some ideas here because I'm really unsure how to get this any further thanks in advance. 

 

 

[Inger Hohler]

As for the mother, her home in 1851 is 'Folde of Ous'. I don't know where that  would be,  but perhaps other readers do? Then we can start looking at local chuch books to see if anything can be gleaned by those. She must have received her confirmation somewhere.
 

The father, Halvor Svendsen, was living at Sande parish in 1851.

As a sailor he would amost certainly have been enrolled in the Navy. 
Sande is a place name found several places in Norway. I started looking through the military rolls in Sande in Vestfold (even if I believe a different Sande - more southerly - is meant.) So far I've leafed through:
Forsvaret, Sjømilitære korps, Håndverkskorpset og Minekorpset, RA/RAFA-1907/P/Pa/L0003: Hovedrulle Matroskompaniet, 1849
Forsvaret, Sjømilitære korps, Håndverkskorpset og Minekorpset, RA/RAFA-1907/P/Pa/L0004: Rulle Matroskompaniet, 1849

Forsvaret, Sjømilitære korps, Håndverkskorpset og Minekorpset, RA/RAFA-1907/P/Pa/L0008: Hovedrulle Artillerikompaniet, 1849

 

without finding a Halvor Svendsen. I can, of course, not guarantee that I haven't missed the name, but the names are fairly  clearly entered.
Checking out the navy rolls might help narrow the search, and there are more books to peruse.

 

Endret September 11 av Inger Hohler
mentioning confirmation

[Inger Hohler]

I just want to point to one unmarried Pauline Olsdatter living in Lakkegaden 6 in 1863. Her age was given as 33 years old, so she  would have been around 18 in 1851. It's a long shot, but she was not too young to be the mother of Anette Hansine.
The one I found in Lakkegaden 1863 got married to Hans Johan Christoffersen. Her  father was called Ole Olsen, his Christoffer Hansen. Hans Johan was born and still living in Lakkegaden, and he was 3 years younger than the bride. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000003686267 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060227041048
This couple had a son Carl Ludvig in 1865 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060227040602
I haven't found them in the census that year.

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

According to the geography-menue in scanned ministerial books, there is Sande prestegjeld in Vestfold and Møre og Romsdal. And the only Os prestegjeld is Os in Hordaland.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb/browse

Endret September 11 av Torbjørn Igelkjøn

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

1 time siden, Inger Hohler skrev:

I just want to point to one unmarried Pauline Olsdatter living in Lakkegaden 6 in 1863. Her age was given as 33 years old, so she  would have been around 18 in 1851. It's a long shot, but she was not too young to be the mother of Anette Hansine.
The one I found in Lakkegaden 1863 got married to Hans Johan Christoffersen. Her  father was called Ole Olsen, his Christoffer Hansen. Hans Johan was born and still living in Lakkegaden, and he was 3 years younger than the bride. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000003686267 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060227041048
This couple had a son Carl Ludvig in 1865 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060227040602
I haven't found them in the census that year.

 

Some of the matches below belong to this couple:

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/persons/advanced?from=&to=&firstname=Hans&lastname=Christophers*&birth_year_from=&birth_year_to=&birth_date=&birth_place=&domicile=&position=&event_year_from=1863&event_year_to=1880&event_date=&related_first_name=Pauline&related_last_name=Ols*&related_birth_year=&sort=rel

 

This Pauline Olsdtr died before 1875, and their children are mentioned in the records of Christiania Fattigvæsen.

 

Endret September 11 av Torbjørn Igelkjøn

[Inger Hohler]

I haven't found Anette in Fattigvesenet, OBA/A-20045/Fr/L0001: Klientregister, 1856-1875, under the letter A. They are sorted according to first name. She may have been placed in care before 1856. 
 

[Inger Hohler]

Pauline Olsdatter married to Hans Christoffersen gave birth to the child Valborg on the third of March 1874. There is no information about where they were living at the time in the christening register. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060921060698
The first entry in the pauper books is dated 09th of November 1875, at which time Pauline Olsdatter was dead. 
I believe she may be the Pauline Olsdatter, born 1933, living at  Lakkegaden 50, who died of Pneumonia on the 19th of May 1874. According to the records she was a widow, but this may be an error.

 

If the authoroties could not get hold of the husband, they may have thought she had been abandoned - and I've seen other abandoned wives listed as widows. The original meaning of the Norwegian word 'Enke' is actually a woman living by herself. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060921030523

Moving only a few blocks was quite common in Christiania. 

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

I tried a random search on Folde. There are many matches from Aure prestegjeld, Møre og Romsdal. The writing in the christening record (1853) is unclear. I wonder if the text says not Ous, but Aure. One of the Sande parishes is also in Møre og Romsdal.

[Anton Hagelee]

5 hours ago, Inger Hohler said:

I just want to point to one unmarried Pauline Olsdatter living in Lakkegaden 6 in 1863.

 

A Tree on Ancestry.com for this family. 

 

Hans Johan Christophersen

1836–1896

BIRTH 10 NOV 1836 • Kristiania, Oslo, Norge

DEATH 23 JAN 1896 • Kristiania, Oslo, Norge

 

Pauline Olsdatter

1833–1874

BIRTH 1833 • Kristiania, Oslo, Norge

DEATH 19- MAI 1874 • Kristiania, Oslo, Norge

 

Daughter in 1863

 

Maren Kristine Hansen

1863–1947

BIRTH 10 JULI 1863 • Kristiania, Oslo, Norge

DEATH 21 JULI 1947 • Oslo, Norge

 

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/187252393/person/212443943527/facts

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

2 timer siden, Inger Hohler skrev:

I believe she may be the Pauline Olsdatter, born 1933, living at  Lakkegaden 50, who died of Pneumonia on the 19th of May 1874

 

Perhaps this Pauline born i 1829. Right side

 

 Kirkebøker: Rikshospitalet prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10309b/F/L0001: Ministerialbok nr. 1, 1818-1832, s. 180-181 - Skanna arkiver - Arkivverket (digitalarkivet.no)

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

36 minutter siden, Ivar Moe skrev:

 

Perhaps this Pauline born i 1829. Right side

 

 Kirkebøker: Rikshospitalet prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10309b/F/L0001: Ministerialbok nr. 1, 1818-1832, s. 180-181 - Skanna arkiver - Arkivverket (digitalarkivet.no)

 

Coincides with this profile at Geni:

https://www.geni.com/people/Pauline-Olsdatter/6000000073593831285

 

The manager of the profile also supplied matches in 1865 and 1875:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038027043391

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052055014408

 

(According to the manager, the match in 1875 is at Kroghstøtten).

Endret September 11 av Torbjørn Igelkjøn

[Jackie K Marler]

The Pauline who married Hans Johan Kristoffersen death # 146:

Grønland prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10848/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. 5, 1869-1880, s. 421
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060921030553

 

She is also #726:

Oslo skifterett, SAO/A-10383/G/Ga/Gaa/L0009: Dødsfallsprotokoll, 1874-1878, p. 103b-104a
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081219320392

 

Their children are in the "poverty matters" database:

Fattigvesenet, OBA/A-20045/H/Hd/L0002: Manntallsprotokoll. Mnr. 1-812, 1879-1887, s. 640
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/od19016000000640

 

 

 

 

Endret September 11 av Jackie K Marler

[Jackie K Marler]

#672 Pauline Olsdatter widow looks like 6 minor children:

Oslo skifterett, SAO/A-10383/G/Ga/Gaa/L0008: Dødsfallsprotokoll, 1870-1874, p. 243b-244a
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081219320248

 

# 125 widow Pauline Olsd living on Lakkeg: Grønland prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10848/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. 5, 1869-1880, s. 393 Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060921030523

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/icon_go_up.gif

 

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

So there are two different Pauline Olsdtr. who died at about the same time.

 

[Inger Hohler]

Well, the Pauline Olsdatter, daughter of Ole Olsen who married Hans Johan Christoffersen in 1863, must surely be the one called Lina (Nicoline) Olsen in the christening records of Maren. It's the same number in Lakkegaden borth for the  marriage and for the christening, and the father's name is the same. She may also be the same as 

3 hours ago, Ivar Moe said:

Pauline born i 1829. Right side

- born in August.
Knowing she  died in april 1876 

 

16 minutes ago, Jackie K Marler said:

Pauline who married Hans Johan Kristoffersen death # 146:

she must have been alive in 1875, and thus probably this one:

 

3 hours ago, Torbjørn Igelkjøn said:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052055014408

The  question still remains if she is identical with the mother of Anette Hansine.

Returning to the widow Pauline Olsdatter who  died from her 6 children in 1874, and who died 5days after the  birth of her last child, born out of wedlock, who died one day before her, listed just below her in the probate record.
 

13 minutes ago, Jackie K Marler said:

672 Pauline Olsdatter widow looks like 6 minor children:

Oslo skifterett, SAO/A-10383/G/Ga/Gaa/L0008: Dødsfallsprotokoll, 1870-1874, p. 243b-244a

She may have  been the one married to Simen Larsen, they had  a child in 1861 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060228030769

[Inger Hohler]

One Simen Larsen, married man, supposedly born 1830, died in 1872 while living at Damstredet https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060920050655
By the look of  things he  managed to impregnate  his wife shortly before he passed away, because Pauline Laurenze Olsdatter bore his child the next year. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060920060647

 

These two had married in 1860 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000005516575
Her father was called Ole Pedersen, and he was working at Holmen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060215030416

I'm going to go back to records of soldiers in the navy to see if I can find more about the elusive father of Anette Hansine.

[Jackie K Marler]

Anette Hansine doesn't appear as faddere for the children of Pauline Olsdatter, Maren Christine (probably too young for this one) , Clara Wilhelmine, Ragna Emilie, Valborg.

[Anton Hagelee]

42 minutes ago, Inger Hohler said:

 

These two had married in 1860 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000005516575
Her father was called Ole Pedersen, and he was working at Holmen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060215030416

 

Pouline Lorentze Olesdatter

in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

NamePouline Lorentze Olesdatter

GenderFemale

Birth Date17. jun 1833 (17 Jun 1833)

Baptism Date29. sep 1833 (29 Sep 1833)

Baptism PlaceVestre Aker, Oslo, Akershus, Norway

FatherOle Pedersen

MotherThore Lorenzsdr

FHL Film Number125850

Reference ID2:1N42003

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/11773734:60092?tid=&pid=&queryid=05d3e6b3-41bd-4d4f-b8f6-5acb93172d37&_phsrc=IlN1&_phstart=successSource

 

 

[Inger Hohler]

8 hours ago, Anton Hagelee said:

NamePouline Lorentze Olesdatter

GenderFemale

Birth Date17. jun 1833 (17 Jun 1833)

This is the link https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061110010559

Endret September 12 av Inger Hohler
incorrect link

[AveryFB]

Wish I had more help to contribute, but just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has replied so far. I haven't been able to figure this out for years and based on the replies I question if it will be solvable at all but maybe something comes up, thanks again everyone!

[Tore Langholm]

På 11.9.2024 den 12.38, Torbjørn Igelkjøn skrev:

According to the geography-menue in scanned ministerial books, there is Sande prestegjeld in Vestfold and Møre og Romsdal. And the only Os prestegjeld is Os in Hordaland.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb/browse

 

There are two prestegjeld (parishes) named Sande, but the one in Møre and Romsdal only came into being in 1865, 14 years after Anette Hansine's baptism.  Before that, Sande was a sogn (subparish)  under Herøy prestegjeld (parish).  So the message from this baptism record seems to be that the father came from Vestfold. ("Halvor Svendsen af Sande Sogn, Sande Prestegjeld.")

[Inger Hohler]

The text in the christening record is somewhat ambiguous. It says the  couple intended to return to their home - in a singular form. It is unclear to me where that would be, since the column says they were living in separate places, far apart. Furthermore, the places they were living may not have been the places they were born.
Based on electronic birth records. Only a few Halvor with father Svend were born in Vestfold in the relevant period.

Looking into the Halvors probably born in Vestfold, if Halvor was younger than 50 and not married, I have found the following:

1832 passport and another passport later the same year saying he  was destined for Copenhagen.

Halvor Svendsen, 22 y old, hat maker journyman born in Larvik. He would have  been born around 1810. I believe this is the son of brick layer Svend Halvorsen Setra and Marie Pouline Hermansdatter:

1825 census from Larvik:

Halvor Svendsen, 13 y old

Halvor Svendsen, 9 years old

(their ages aren't quite correct)

both with father Svend Halvorsen Setra, a master bricklayer , mother's name not mentioned.

The youngest of the boys received his confirmation in 1826, and here his mother's name was Marie Pouline Hermansdatter. 

This couple had a son Halvor born in 1807 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000008791530  and another in 1810 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000008793091 I have not found the confirmation of the eldest of the two - but he probably died in 1808 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000001634459 which makes it odd that he is mentioned in the 1825 census!

I have no further information about the hat maker journyman.

In 1857 one Halvor Wilhelm Svendsen from Vallø, age 20, got married, but methinks he would have been a tad young to be fathering a child in 1850. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070425640455

[Inger Hohler]

I've continued to exclude Halvor Svendsens, without finding a candidate that stands out.
The county just north of Vestfold is Buskerud. Buskerud had a few more Halvor Svendsens born between 1800 and 1833, but quite a few of them are unlikely to be the father of Anette Hansine.

In the 1801 census there is one Halvor Svendsen age 1 y in Sigdal. His  parents were Svend Carlsen and Johanne Halvorsdatter https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058273000433 This is his christening, although the name of the mother is not mentioned. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312630429

In 1815 a Halvor  Svendsen was born to Svend Halvorsen and Brynild Knudsdatter, in Rollag. They  were  living at Gavingsgaar-Eje. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111020005

This man stayed a bachelor until 1850 when he married Brynild[? the transcription says Ragnhild] G...[iskes? the transcription says Gudsdatter which is certainly not correct] datter at Nore. His father was called Svend Halvorsen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111030119

Given the year of marriage I doubt this is the father of Anette Hansine.

 

In 1815 one Halvor Svendsen was born to Svend Halvorsen and Live Andersdatter Solem-Eie in Sigdal https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312640270

A 2 y old Halvor Svendsen Kopseng died in Sigdal in 1819 and never had the chance to father a child. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312640331

A new Halvor Svendsen Kopseng was born the same year to Svend Halvorsen and Liv Andersdatter KopsengEie. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312640280

In 1843 Halvor Svendsen Solum, born about 1820, was wed to Ingeborg Trulsdatter in Sigdal. His father was called Svend  Halvorsen https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313620150 It is my belief  that this is  the Halvor Svendsen who was born at KopsengEie.
I find it very unlikely that he  fathered Anette Hansine, beacuse his wife gave birth to a child in late November 1851, and  I find no evidence he was  a sailor. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312650565

 

In 1825 a Halvor Svendsen was born to parents Svend Iversen and Margit Halvorsdatter Gunnildsgaard, in Ål https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109030949

 

In 1825 a Halvor Svendsenwas born to parents Svend Torsen and Birgit Halvorsdatter Bækkestad, in Ål https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109030951

 

In 1828 a Halvor Svendsen born around 1801 got married in Modum. He was  living at Nÿemoen. The name of the bride was Anne Nielsdatter. The name of their fathers are not mentioned. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051114010532 His age fits reasonably well with the boy form Sigdal whose parents were Svend  Carlsen and Johanne Halvorsdatter. The name of Halvor and Anne's children were Carine, born 1830 Nils Petter, born 1832 Randi Carine, born 1833 Johanne, born 1834 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109010646 
With so many births in so few years it is not all that surprising Halvor needed a new wife in 1838. Her name  was Birthe Marie Sørensdatter https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109010212 The  names  of their fathers are not mentioned.
The couple continued to have children fairly regularly until at least 1854 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070312610158.

I believe it is unlikely that this man is the father of Anette Hansine.

 

In 1829 a Halvor Svendsen was born to Svend Halvorsen Lönnevig and Anne Margrethe Jonsdatter in  Kongsberg. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051116020844

In 1852 one bachelor Halvor Svendsen Lønnevig, born about 1830, was married to Marte Kirstine  Jonsdatter in Kongsberg. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051116010300
They had a daughter in 1853. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051116010105

 

In 1831 a Halvor Svendsen was born to Svend Halvorsen and Bergit Rasmusdatter in Gol https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051116040829. 

He may have been the same bachelor Halvor Svendsen who lived at Løkken, born around 1831, when he married one Kari Endresdatter[?] in 1870. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060410020256

 

In 1832 a Halvor Svendsen was born to Svein Togesen TeigenEie and Marte Kistine Halvorsdatter in Sandsvær https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316660156 The boy died before the age of 2. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316660355

Obviously he was too young to father Anette Hansine.

 

In 1840 a 10 y old Halvor Svendsen died in Rollag. The place name starts with Ta, the next letter is either e or l, and the rest isn't easy to read either. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630545 He could not have fathered Anette Hansine

 

... In 1856 one Haldan [I can't get this to say Halvor as in the transcription] Svendsen Mørkeie and his wife Inger Marie Hansdatter had a child in Sandsvær https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316660501

 

 

 

[Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

17 minutter siden, Inger Hohler skrev:

when he married Brynild[? the transcription says Ragnhild] G...[iskes? the transcription says Gudsdatter which is certainly not correct] datter at Nore. His father was called Svend Halvorsen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111030119

 

Raugnild Gislesdatter?

[Inger Hohler]

Halvor Svendsen Bækkestad born 1825 is almost certainly the Halvor Svendsen living at Bækkestad in the 1865 census, age 40. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038088004877
He was not married, and by the 1875 census he had fallen ill and was being supported by his brother. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052119005005

He died at Bækkestad in 1889 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060913070421

 

Halvor Svendsen Gunnildsgaar born 1825 is must be the marrried 'selveier' who died in 1891 at Ellefstölen ('self owner', an expression commonly used for cottagers who had bought the land they were farming) https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060913070425 His wife, according to the 1875 census was Sidsel Tollefsdatter. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052119003200 They had married in 1858. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109020169

I haven't found any military records online which would cover Ål in the appropriate time period.
There are church records for people moving out of the parish, and I've checked them for the periode 1840-1852 without finding any Halvor Svendsen. Granted, these lists were rarely complete, but they do make it less likely that any of the Halvor Svendsen had any longish abscenses.

It does not seem very likely that these men were sailors at any time, being employed in farming when we hear of them, and from the  mountain districts quite far inland . Sailors did not always have a maritime connection when they started out, but most of the time they did.

 

10 hours ago, Torbjørn Igelkjøn said:

Raugnild Gislesdatter?

That's a very reasonable reading.