[#1972] Selveier

[Gjest robert d. sabo]

Another question. On the 1865 census, my two greatgrandfathers in Norway are shown as Selviers, whic means ownership of the land. On 1801 censuses all residents of a farm are shown as farmers. Does this mean that none of them owned the land? How can one determine wh was the owner on 1801 census? Or is it not possible to determine?

[Gjest Jan Oldervoll]

In most cases it cannot be decided from the census. One of reasons why this is not given in teh census is that teh difference between being Selveier (owner of the land) and Leilending (tenent) is less then one should believe. Both are farmers. The leilending has to pay rent, which usually is rather small. The selveier do not have to pay rent, but very often has to pay some compensation to brothers and sisters, because tehy have to have their part iåof the inheritance. Socially there is no real difference bbetween a selveier and a leilending.

[Gjest robert d. sabo]

Thank you,Jan, for the information. I'd like to use this opportunity to thank yu and your colleagues for the most wonderful work you have done in putting these census record on line. This is a service to people that is valuable beyond measure. There is nothing like it in this country. I have been able to put together a good, accurate history of my family from Norway whch has been of immense interest to all the branches of my fdamily in this country. Thank you so much. rds

[Gjest Jan Oldervoll]

Thank you for your kind words. Having the feeling that we are usefu for people plays an important role in our efforts to build the database.

[Gjest Nina Beth Macdonald]

Hello Robert and Jan,Jan writes: "Socially there is no real difference between a selveier and a leilending." Economically that was often quite true, but socially?I think that one could say that the truth of that statement varies / has varied / quite a bit, perhaps according to where in Norway one is. I remember being quite surprised in the 60s-70s listening to older people in Setesdal talking very seriously about whether a person had "married up" or "married down" according to whether he married a 'gardsjente' or a 'plassjente'. I encountered the same thing in Sogn; there perhaps more as a historical curiosity.Let me take this opportunity to second Robert's thanks to Jan and his colleagues - and to the many very knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum. I have no Norwegian blood in my veins (well, perhaps some several hundred years ago in the Hebrides?), but I've done some volunteering lately for several appreciative English-speaking descendants of Norwegians. The Archives and - not least - the forums are a fantastic and fascinating resource of which any country could be proud.Thanks!

[Gjest Jan Oldervoll]

Thank you for your kind words, Nina!First of all a plassjente is not the daugther of a leilending; she is the daugther of a husmann, which is something completely different, economically and socially. For a farmer's son, ether selveier or leilending, marring a plassjente would be complicated socially, but would if he was teh heir of the farm it would probably not matter in teh long run. The couple's social would be decided by the fact that they had a farm. Can be compared to the royal wedding in Norway this year.For a farmeer's daughter to marry downwards to a husmann and moving into the husmannsplass would be a very definite step downwards.A bonde (farmer) in Norway may be both a selveier (owning his own farm) or a leilending (tenant). Their status is not decided by the fact theat ow their own farm or not, but by the size of the farm.

[Gjest Nina Beth Macdonald]

Thank you, Jan. I learn something all the time at this site!--Nina Beth