[#5500] Records for Aker/Agersogn - 1848

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

The envelope arrived. Thanks ever so much. I'll be in touch by mail.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

My grandfather, Martinius Johansen was born in 1848 at Aker/Agersogn, Norway. I would appreciate any help in finding more about his birth - the exact birthdate and names of parents, brothers and sisters, if any. I found his name in the 1865 and 1875 censuses, at which time he was living in Christiania. He left Christiania (Oslo) in June 1900 with his wife and six children for New York - final destination South Dakota. I know only a few other details about Martinius that I would be happy to give to someone that can help me with Agersogn records. Thank you, Pearl

[Gjest Anne Brit Jensen]

I think I found your grandfather in the 1865 census in Christiania (now Oslo). He then lived in Storgaten No 8 in the parish "Vor Frelsers Menighed" listed as a trainee. Any help?

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Yes, I am quite sure that it's his name in the list of residents living at Storgaten No. 8 - Martinius Johaness. He was living with G. Waaler, who is a Glarmester (old spelling for glassmaster). Grandfather must have been training under him. Martinius was a "Glasmester" in the 1875 Census and that is what his occupation was when he left Norway in 1900.He was 18 years old in 1865. I do not know how to connect him to his parents who may have been still alive and living in Ager sogn. Maybe someone would have access to Ager or Aker (I think it's now called Akershus) parish records for 1848 when Martinius was born?? Should I be searching in Vors Frelsers Menighed records for the period of 1865?Any help would be grateful, Thanks Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Hello - me again. If you have his date of birth that would simplify the search a lot. Do you have any paper after him, gravestone, marriage certificate or something that gives additional information, like sisters and brothers?

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per ~ No, I'm sorry I don't have any birthdate, only the year 1848 and that came from the Census Records. When he left Norway on June 29, 1900, he is listed as 51 years old. If these records are correct then his birthday would be somewhere in the last 6 months.I do not know if he had any brothers or sisters. I believe he had a glass business with an uncle in Oslo at the time he emigrated. His name was spelled Martinius (john)Johansen when he emigrated from Oslo. I do not know what the (john) is for, unless it was a nickname. However, when he left Liverpool for New York, he was listed as John Johanson.He married Nicoline Antonette Eugenia Westby (Vestby)who was born May 11, 1858. Marriage date unknown. They had 6 children who survived infancy. The first 2 girls were - Margit born April 4, 1883 and Auslaug Sigfrida born Dec 9, 1889.The first son to live was Ernst Rolf born Feb 13, 1893 and christened at Kvinneklinikken (Fødselsstiftelsen)- hospital for unwed mothers and the poor, Vårs Frelsers, Christiania. It is hard to make out the writing on Ernst's Dåpsattest - it looks like he was christened on - 18 February S. A. ?Carrie (or Karen) Elida was born Oct 7, 1894. Frithjof Stub was born August 26, 1896.The last child, Carl Eilert Rolf was born October 22, 1898 and christened at KEMPEN KIRKE, Oslo on June 24, 1900, just 5 days before leaving Norway.I only have christening records for the two sons, Ernst and Carl. On Ernst's christening record, Nicoline uses her fosterparent's name - Fredriksen; on Carl's record she uses Westby.Hope this will help. Thanks again, Pearl

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

There are 3 other pieces of information that might help. 1) In 1875, Martinius lived at a dwelling on Platuo Street, Christiania as a lodger in Johan Larsen's household. 2) Also, living in the same household is Christian Johansen, born 1847 in Aker. This could be a relative, I do not know. 3) The initials M. J. and 19./10./82 are engraved on a ring. We know of no one in the family with those initials except Martinius, (Margit wasn't born until 1883). This might be a clue for Martinius's birthdate or marriage date. More likely the marriage date, but that is only a guess.Thanks, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

No news, but just for the order of it: It should be Kampen Kirke, Platous gade. SA means Samme Aar (same year).

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

I see now that FT1875 does indeed spell Platuos. Still it is wrong.But I believe I have a couple of other things for you. (In brackets I name the sources: MINI=minicard no at Riksarkivet, then Parish in Christiania, then insertion no.)(Mini 29-3 Vor Frelsers Menighet/Domkirken, no 54:) Margit Borghild Hilmar, born 3. april 1883 bapt. 10. june. Parents: Glasmester Martinius Johansen, Hst (=Hustru=Wife) Nikoline Antonette Eugenia f (born) Westby. Address: Storgaten 8. Year of Birth: father: 1848, mother 1858, Ægtet (=year of wedding): 1882. Faddere (=godparents): kostemager? (brushmaker?) Johan Larsen, glasmæster Adolf Larsen, kone (wife) Karen Fredriksen, Pige (unmarried girl) Anna Olsen.(Mini 29-7 Vor Frelser/DomkirkenNo 19:) Aslaug Sigfrid born 9.dec. 1889 bapt 30. may 1890. Parents: Glasmester Martinius Johansen, Hst Nikoline Johansen, address: Storgaden 10a. Parents born: 1848 / 1857. Godparents: Glasmester Johan Larsen, Hans Larsen, Enke (widow) Karen Fredriksen, Pige Aagot Larsen.It would surprise me if you don't find close relatives of the kid among the godparents. Notice also that in 1883 they live in Storgata 8, while six years later they live in the neighbouring house, Storgata 10a. This was quite common. At a time when transport was sparse and expensive, it was important and usual to live as close to the workplace as possible. There was also an other reason: dinner habits. It was common for craftsmen and others to start working at 7 in the morning or earlier, then they went home for an hour or two to eat, went back to work, had another food break, and finished maybe at 7 or later in the evening. And they had a six days week. So living far from work was quite impossible. This has relevance to the next thing I found:(Mini 26-5 Vor Frelser/Domkrk page 124: Dead 3rd of December 1873, buried dec 9: Andreas Johannessen (married), age: 1833, Bopel (address): Rødfyldgaden 25. Reason of death: Harmgelis (?) tuberculosis.What seems confusing is the bit about his age. But sloppyness about age at registrating deathts is quite common. (I have seen larger discrepensies than twenty years. And it is also a matter of who gave that information and under which circumstances.) But on the other hand the house is just two houses away from the old address, cfr. the reflections above. So it is not unreasonable to assume that he is the right person. There is also the encouraging fact that no Andreas Johansen (or Johannessen) lives in Rødfyldgata 25 in FT1865, a mere 8 years earlier.Hope this helps a bit. /phc

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

This is a tremendous help. In 1961 or 62, my father, Ernest Johnson, visited relatives in Oslo. I never knew if it was on the Johansen or Westby/Fredriksen side of the family. The elderly couple he visited were Thorbjorn and Dagmar Larsen (not sure of the spelling). They also visited a place on Storgata or Storgaden Street. I thought that was where Grandpa Martinius and a relative had a glass factory where stained glass for windows was made. But when I inquired, in this forum, about the meaning of Glarmester and glasmester - I was told it was a person that puts windows in houses. I was not convinced that's what Grandpa did for a living - I still think he owned a glass factory and manufactured glass - and Adolf Larsen was probably the relative that continued in the business after Martinius emigrated in 1900.Do you think, that Johan Larsen was Martinius's father? Then Hans and Aagot are likely relatitives, too??Martin and Karen Fredriksen were listed in the 1865 and 1875 Census as Nicoline's fosterparents. As I mentioned before on Ernst bapt. record his mother was listed as - Nicoline f. Fredriksen.I'm not sure how Anna Olsen fits into the picture, but if you look in the 1875 Census, also living with the Fredriksens, was a girl - Anne Olsdatter, tyende, ug, b. 1857/Odalen. Maybe this is Anna??If you think I'm on the right track about Martinius's father being Johan Larsen, please let me know.I am more sure about the ring now; it is very, very likely that it belonged to Martinius and the date engraved on it was their wedding date.Per, this is quite a jigsaw puzzle but each time you find something for me, it fits into the picture!Thanks for now, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Just a couple of comments: yes - it is likely that since they are repeatedly godparents they are family somehow. Anna Olsen? You will notice an interesting transition from 1883 to 1889 in their naming habits: the women now use -sen names, not -daughter, not a patronymicon, but take their men's patronymicon as a FAMILY name. (I an certain that you have now worked out the particular firstname - patronymicon - farm/placename namestructure sometimes so dificult to explain to foreigners.) So I am quite convinced that this is our unwed Anna Olsdatter now taking OLSEN as her FAMILY name. This transition generally started in the cities, and spread to the countryside (where they also of course used the farm-name) around the turn of the century. (My grandmother called herself Juline Pedersdatter all her life (d1953) but started signing Julie Christiansen around 1900. I see that from scholl papers.) (A very few families starting taking patronimic FAMILY names a lot earlier, but that is an other story). I did look for the wedding, but so far without success. May be it took place at the bride's home place (quite common), or in a different part of Chr:a. Or I may have overlooked it. Can somebody reading this perhaps take a look? - I don't have so much time. The ring is likely to be their engagement date OR wedding date. The engagement was taken very seriously at that time, to break an engagement was serious indeed. The wedding was more of the formal confirming ceremony. The engagement was proclaimed in the church three times before the wedding, you often find that written into the older church-books.It is difficult without investigating what Glassmester means in practice. Ordinarily he would have a shop where they cut and fitted glass. A shop in Storgata (gade=gate=street, in this case Main Street, stor=large or big.) That does nor exclude him owning a factory somewhere.Oh yes, this is a jigsaw puzzle, but I have seen much worse, you should not complain. Johan Larsen? It seems so. But do not jump to conclusions, that is about the worst thing one can do. No - the worst really. You find generation after generation, lots of family. And then, two years and hundreds of working hours later you find you were wrong about one early assumption, THEN you sit down crying. So I advice you to go this carefully, step by step.

[Gjest Laila Normann Christiansen]

Hei PerH, Hi Pearl! Have you checked the Oslo DOmkirke church-records for the marriage of Martinius and Nicoline? Since the first child was christened there, and the year of marriage is mentioned....Laila

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Hi, Per and Laila - I went back to the 1875 Census and found the following names, all living in Johan and Karen Larsen's dwelling -Johan Larsen hf g Hegtemagerarbeider 1839 Aker, Karen Larsen hm g 1841 Hedemarken,Gustav Adolf Larsen s 1866 KristianiaKarl Johan Larsen s 1867 KristianiaHans Jacob Larsen s 1870 KristianiaRangnil Karoline Larsen d 1872 KristianiaOgodt Larsen d 1874 KristianiaJacob Jacobsen s 1865 Lødingen PræstegjeldMartinius Johansen Logerende ug Glasmester 1848 AkerChristian Johansen Logerende ug Tomtearbeider 1847 AkerIt looks like any of the above persons are listed as godparents. You are right, I was jumping to conclusions, Johan Larson is not old enough to be Martinius's father. Martinius is listed as a lodger, so maybe there is no relationship?You have provided information I never knew before - Margit's 2nd and 3rd names and a correct birthdate April 3 (not 4th, 1883. And a different spelling for "Nikoline". Her gr-gr-granddaughter Nikki will be happy to see that spelling!!Most grateful, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

And you have the correct interpretation of something I could not get any sense of: Hegtemager (modern spelling would have been hektemaker, today he would have been a Zip-producer!), not brushmaker, as was the only sense I could get into it. The fellow at the archives was right: "it has to be a profession which does not exist anymore." And it was. He must, I assume, have made these tiny hooks which are still sometimes still used in womens clothes/ dresses where today more often buttons, zippers or even more modern mechanisms are used.And yes, Laila, I did try to find the marriage. But perhaps I just missed it?

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Oops, I meant to type "many" of the above people were listed as godparents!

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

A list of all the children and their godparents would be helpful. I thought maybe you had that kind of comprehensive information where you had the dates and first names of the children, but then maybe not? A little problem here has been that I do not now how detailed your information has been.Yes - Margit's birthday was april 3. There is no misprint.There is a lot to say about their choice of names, which is a-typical, to put it mildly. It at least indicates a family which socially is on the way up, or aspiring to rise up. Hilmar is usually a male name, and so is Sigfrid, but I can see that Sigfrid is later feminized into Sigfrida, so may be the same happened to Hilmar? Were they interested in music? Wagner? Or in German/Nordic mythology to use these names? Nietzsche? Frithjof is also that sort of a name. I just wonder. It looks like more than fashion.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per - I think I have told you all I know about Martinius when he lived in Norway. There is only one other bit of info I found, but I don't think it will help in tracing Martinius's roots.In the 1865, census, Martinius and Nicoline lived at the same address but in different households. Her name is listed as "Lina Antonte Augenie Westye" and she is living with fosterparents, Martin and Karen (Larsd.)Fridrichs.All of their children that, I know of, are listed in the above message dated 11.05.01 04:26.The 2 Dåpsattest that I have are probably not the originals. Ernst's certificate was issued on 12.9.1930. Carl's was issued 6 November 1952. There are no godparents listed on these documents.As to their choice of names, I have no idea where they came from. No extra-ordinary musical talent, if any, in the 6 children.I did mention that there were 6 children who survived infancy. I think there were at least 2 baby boys born before Ernst, I know he was not the first son.I have a copy of an old cemetery form, that looks like it is a receipt for a burial plot. It is for Sofienberg Kirkegaard. L.-No.375The Gravsted: ? - 2-17Opklapning med Jord og Tilsaaning - Kr. 1,20The date is 13/6/1890There is no name on this form.I don't know if this will help, but if the cemetery has records dating back to 1890, maybe that would show who was buried in the plot, if anybody was.That's all, anything else I know about Martinius happened after he left Norway. Pearl.

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Hello and congratulations with the 17th of May, Norway's national day - our day of independence!The cemetary forms have the right format: . Is the field number unreadable or is it a matter of interpretation? Maybe it is possible to follow this up.But to something more important. I have two pieces of information to you (and forgive my translations, I try to keep the "feel" of the original):Source: (FORLoverseserklæringer = Declarations of engagement)Domkirken FORL 18-03/6: "We, the undersigners, aware of the requirements of the Law in this matter, hereby give, as best men, our attestation that there are no legal obstacles to a marriage between:Batchelor Glassmester Martinus Johansen and Nikoline Antonette Eugenia Fredriksen. Kristiania the 15th April 1882. Signed: Johan Larsen, Platougaden No 16 M Fredriksen, Nytorvet No 4"MINIsterialbok card Domkirken, MINIcard 21-14 1882 insertion 6:Wedding day 20. May 1882: Batchelor Glasmester Martinus Johansen, adr. Storgade 8, birthplace Aker date 12th Oct 1848, father Johan Rasmussen, and Nikoline Antonette Eugenia Fredriksen, adr. Nytorvet 4, birthplace Kristiania, date 11th May 1858, father: Andreas Johnsen Vestby. Name and address of best men: Johan Larsen, Platougaden 16 and M Fredriksen, Nytorvet 4. The engagement was declared on dates: 16th, 23rd & 30th of April. Declararation of engagement asked by: Joh. Larsen."I have copies of both, and especially the declaration of the engagement is nice, because it has the genuine signature of Johan Larsen and M Fredriksen. You will soon have then in your mailbox.

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Sorry for the misprint: Batchelor should of course be Bachelor!

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Words can cannot express how I feel right now. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you have done. It's all there, Martinius's birthdate, his father's name................etc.There are 50 of us Johnson decendents (that's the way it is spelled now), all decendents of Ernst, that thank you. Just let us know what kind of stamps you want. None of us are stamp collectors, but we will start right now.I guess that engraving on the ring was not such a good clue after all. Sorry, if that sent you on a wild goose chase.About the cemetery plot number - ?-2-17. It seems to be a letter and not a number. It could be a "V" or an "N" or maybe "U". If you had a fax, I could fax it to you, or I could send a photocopy by mail, if you want to follow up on this lead.Many thanks from Canada.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per and all the wonderful people in Norway.CONGRATULATIONS on your National Day of Independence. I shall wear my Norwegian Flag pin today!!

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Thank you. I meant stamp-collecting on YOUR side. After all I am sending things to you. One envelope is on it's way if you have not got it already, and the next will be soon. (Today is holiday.)The first letter must be a large gothic letter (gothic handwriting). Maybe you should look it up in a book on gothic letters? Otherwise I can look at it for you in some days. I don't think I can manage to venture more into this for a week's time. Until then you can look for candidates for Johan Rasmussen. I have got one idea, but I think you should look for him independently of that. Two brains, etc. And now we celebrate. Sadly, the good weather we have had for a couple of weeks just left us, and now it is raining... Yours /ph

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Yes, I we will collect stamps for YOU, if that's what you want. I will check the Censuses today for Johan Ramussen.Happy Holiday!!

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

I searched through the Akershus 1865 Census and then started in Christiania census for 1865. I found this Johan Rasmus, what do you think??Alle Previous Next Home Help Analysis Dictionary Documentation Print format Show/hide variables Record 47092-47112 of 53653 total in the data base Listenr Side Gårdsnummer Gatenavn Bydel Kjøpstad Antall i gården 2010 2080 247 1 Sandakerveien Gamle Akers Menighed Christiania 21 Personnunner Nytt hushold Fornavn Etternavn Familiestatus Yrke Sivilstand Alder Kjønn Fødested Trosbekjennelse 47092 1 1 Kristine Pedersd. Husmoder e 64 k Christiania 47093 2 Marie Levors. Pleiebarn 10 k Christiania 47094 3 1 Johan Petter Rasmus. Huusfader Papirarbeider g 37 m Agers Prgj. 47095 4 Anne Kirstine f Johannes. Huusmoder hans Kone g 35 k Agers Prgj. 47096 5 Kiersti f Christophers. Logerende hans Moder e 80 k Agers Prgj.The above might be a little scrambled, but the information is there. Three people living in the Johan Rasmus. household #47094, #47095 and #47096.

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Hello again. I certainly don't want any kind of payment for this, stamps or anything, but you can perhaps try to find out something for me relating to Canada (family, of course), but that will have to wait till we are back. Right now we are in the mountains, at the cottage. (And this is written of a SmartPhone, not a PC, but a telephone with a keyboard and a screen. I can use it on the Internet, but it is slower than a PC, so things will have to wait until we re back.) Yes, I have noticed Johan Rasmussen. He is young to be the father, but possible. I did try to look up the birth of Martinius Johansen, but did not find him at first try. When I get the time I will try other sources. Maybe you could scan me the graveyard information you have, but that will have to wait till ower the weekend. The other information ought to be given in this open forum so that others may be able to participate. /ph