[#5503] Records for Grønlands Menighed, Christiania

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Would anyone know if there are records open to the public for Grølands Menighed, Christiania? I was told that this was (or still is) a prison in Oslo. If these records are available and go back to 1865, I would be very interested. I believe my great-grandfather's name maybe among those listed in prison in the 1865 census.If anyone has information on these prison records or an address where I could write for them, please let me know.Thanks, Pearl

[Gjest Hans Mathisen]

Grønland is a part of Oslo (Christiania). It was (and probably still is) a parish, not a prison. But as far as I know a prison (Botsfengselet) was/is situated in this part of Oslo. Good luck!

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Thanks Hans, it's been awhile since I worked on this and have forgotten the few Norwegian words I had learned. Right, I gave the parish and not the address. This is the address as given in the 1865 Census - Gårdsnummer - 44 Gatenavn - Grønlandsleret (Bodsfængslet) Bydel - Grønlandsleret Menighed Kjopstad - ChristianiaThere were 247 persons living at this address. Pearl

[Gjest Anne Strande]

There is a parish that is named Grønland Menighet. There is also a prison at Grønlandsleret that was named Bodsfængselt. This prison is 150 years, the opening was 5.may 1851, and it is still a prison.It has been written a book about the prisons history this year. It's named "Bot og Bedring gjennom 150 år". The author is Marius Johansen. You can buy the book contacting Oslo Fengsel (prison)tel: 23 30 17 55.There are records and censuses that can help you to find out more about your ancestor, and maybe the reason why he was imprisoned. You have to contact "Riksarkivet".Maybe I can help you, but you have to tell his name. Anne

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Anne - His name in the 1865 Census was listed as -Anders Johns. Westby - widower (e), occupation - Snedkersvend, born 1817, in Christiania.I have more information on Anders Westby - his birth and marriage dates; his wife, 3 children, 2 brothers, a sister and his parent's names.I would like to know why he went to prison and for how long. I haven't been able to find his name in the 1875 census. Maybe he died in prison so there maybe a death date in their records.The book sounds interesting!You may contact me at p.ddanroth@sk.sympatico.caThanks, Pearl

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

I see I made another Norwegian spelling mistake, the parish should be Grønlands Menighed in Christiania

[Gjest Anne Strande]

I have tried to send you a mail, but it didn't work Anne

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Received your email, Thanks, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

I found one of my "own" in Botsfengslet in Oslo (at the same address, Grønlandsleiret 44) around 1900. I do not remember now all the details, but first I had to get the staff at Riksarkivet in Oslo to find his name on the reference card, of which I got a copy. On that card is written the volume and page of the different Fangebøker (Prisoner Books) where he is mentioned. Going through them was quite interesting, there were his life story, background, personal characteristica, much about his parents, etc, and of course details about what crime he had committed and the sentence itself. And I got a prison picture, sideways and frontal. I hope that it is possible for you to order copies from Riksarkivet in Oslo. They would need to know his correct name and year of birth,I guess. Good luck!

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Dear Per - Your message is very encouraging. I had hoped to find out why he went to prison and maybe his death date - that is, if he died in prison. But to find his life story - that would be wonderful. I'm just hoping the prison still has records as far back as 1865.Thanks for adding your comments, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

I was checking up other things at the archives today, so I took a look at "your" Andreas too. The quality of the copies are not so very good. I can try to scan and send them to you, but I think it would be better if you had the original copies. So if you give your "snail mail" address (i.e.: postal -) you should have them in the mailbox in a few days. He was taken for theft, by the way. No indication that he died in prison.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per - that's great. As you probably realize, I can't read Norwegian, so I would be very grateful if you would also translate for me. Thanks ever so much, don't forget to include costs for photocopying, etc.Send copies to ~ Box 26 Demaine, Sask., S0L 0R0 Canada.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per - I should mention that my gr-grandfather's name was Andreas Johansen Westby born Oct 3, 1817 in Christiania. He married Marthe Oline Christiansdatter January 31, 1853. He resided at Rødfyldgade, no 29, Vors Frelsers Menighed, Christiania in January of 1861 - last known address. If this checks out with what you found in the prison records, then this ANDERS is my gr-grandfather. Contact me at my email address if you have any other questions.Many thanks, Pearl

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

I have translated what I found, you have to accept that it is a kind of home-brew translation from strange old law-language with danish spelling, though.. I'll send the copies and a translation. It did not cost me anything but time. Hope someone in your family collects stamps??

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Hello again. Sorry I had to break off - work. Yes, it is the same person, born 3rd of October 1817, but in his prison statement he says that he is born in Eker, i.e. Eiker in modern spelling, in Buskerud (not in Christiania), and that his father John Amundsen is dead, but his mother is still alive in Eiker. (Eiker is not far from Christiania (Oslo), though). She must be the Malene Andersdatter, 71 and widow (enke) whom we find at Strandstedet Hougsund in 239 Haugsund in Haugs Hovedsogn in Eker in 1865. She "underholdes av sine Børn", i.e. is supported by her children. I intend to send you the copies and translations tomorrow. First I make some extra copies just to be on the safe side.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per - That's just great. It is him!! The records you found are the same as I have - his father and mother's names. Does it mention his children and their names? His daughter Nicoline is my grandmother. What kind of stamps do you want, new or old? Thanks a million, P.

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

No names of children are mentioned, only that he has three children (in 1865) and is a widower. And that he has 4 sisters & brothers (søsken): Christian, Jørgine, Anders and Nils. He is educated as a carpenter, but the last 6-7 years he has been selling beer and worked as a sausage-maker. It seems that you must go to Eiker to find his birth. Malene Andersdatter is not a very common name, so that should simplify things. I am not certain of the sources in that part of the country, though, I don't have relations there.

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

You have turned up one brother that I didn't know about - Nils. I'll have to try to find Nils in one of the censuses. Your information confirms only 3 children. I've been looking for the 4th. I have the names of 3 children and christening records for 2 of them. So that's good to know - only 3.I received this information about Andreas's birth/christening - born 3 okt. 1817 døpt 20 okt 1817 i Haug Kirke (born out of wedlock). I'm not sure where Haug Kirke is located. I had thought it was in Christiania??I am so pleased with what you've found. Looking forward to receiving the copies. Have a great weekend.......

[Gjest Rune Bjerke]

Sorry to interfere this exciting dialogue, but:Haug kirke is situated on a hill near the village og Hokksund (which probably equals Hougsund above), Øvre Eiker municipality, Buskerud county.Rune

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Yes, please. If anybody with special knowledge of Øvre Eiker should know anything about Malene Andersdatter b ca 1794 and John Amundsen, then please join us. Hallo slektsgranskere i Eiker? And where did Andreas (Anders) get "Westby"?

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Pearl: I have taken the liberty of establishing a new theme under the headline of Eiker, so to make people who know that area aware of this.

[Gjest Laila Normann Christiansen]

Hei og Hi! Jon Torp and I helped Pearl around christmas with Eiker-family. I dont remember now, but I think they lived on a Westbye-farm in Eiker at some point. It was mentioned in a churchrecord, if I dont remember totally wrong. Laila

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Ok - so then the problems are with the other side, see no 3403.

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

By the way: 8 months in prison, hard labour (straffarbeid) - do anyone know the present day value of 1 1/2 Speciedaler (= 120 skilling =6 kroner) in 1865? Is there an index somewhere?

[Gjest Pearl Danroth]

Per - If you send an email, I could forward all of Laila's email regarding the Westby/Amundsen family in Eiker that she sent to me awhile ago. That will save me trying to retype it in the forum. And eliminate any spelling mistakes I might make. Pearl