[#11751] Aud Sandbu - help in Vaagaa

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Aud Sandbu - I admire the wonderful help you give people seeking ancestors in Vaagaa/Sel and I often wonder - do you find out all that just from the Church records & census or do you use some additional source? Is there a local history written for that area? I would like to find the foreldres of Ener Olson Fjerdingreneie f. May 5, 1821 and his wife Eldri Olsdtr Sondre Faugstadeie f. May 18, 1834, my mormor's beloved grandparents. Thank you for any suggestions you may have.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

I have seen your request, but need some more time. Please be patient, and I will be back with some informations about your mormor's ancestors later this week. I use the church records (back to 1739) and the cencus as far as I can, because there is no other good sources for that local area. Some times I am lucky, and have the persons who are asked for in my own register, but not in your case, so it takes time to seek out from the records.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

The children of Ener and Eldri: Ingeborg b. April 4, 1856 at Randen, Marit b. Feb. 6, 1858 at Brenden, Peder b. Sept. 8, 1860 at Brenden, Thor b. July 20, 1865 at Randen, and Ole b. Mars 2, 1868 at Randen. One of them was your mormor's mother or father, and have no. 1) Maybe it was Thor E. Randen?2) Ener Olsen b. May 5, 1821 at the cotters place Brenden belonged to the farm Fjerdingren in Heidal. Chr. in Heidal church May 31, 1821. (Parents: Ole Enersen and Ingeborg Hansdtr. Fjerdingren-eie.) Died at Randen Feb. 2, 1913, burried Feb. 15, 1913 at Heidal church cemetery.Married July 12, 1855 in Heidal Church to3) Eldri Olsdtr. b. May 18, 1834 at the cotters place Randen søre (south one) belonged to the farm Faukstad in Heidal. Chr. in Heidal church Juny 8, 1834. (Parents: Ole Hansen and Marit Olsdtr. Faukstad-eie.) Died April 6, 1896 at Randen, burried April 18, 1896 at Heidal church cemetery.Ener and Eldri were at Randen søndre both in 1865 and 1875. In 1900 Ener was widower and 'retired' at the same place, and his oldest son had taken over the cotters place and had his own family.4) Ole Enersen b. 1791 at the farm Holen, Heidal, chr. Oct. 23, 1791 in Heidal church. (Father: Ener Holen.) Died Feb. 26, 1861 at Brenden, burried Mars 5, 1861 at Heidal church cemetery. After becoming a widower, Ole married 2nd time July 10, 1831 Ingeborg Paulsdtr. Tho-eie b. 1789, died 1854 at Brenden, but first he ...married 1st time Oct. 10, 1820 in Heidal church to5) Ingeborg Hansdtr. b. 1790 at the cotters place Dypdalen belonged to the farm Bjølstad, Heidal. Chr. Mars 3, 1790 in Heidal church. (Father: Hans Dypdalen) Died Sept. 16, 1825 after giving birth to the son Hans b. Sept. 9, 1825 at Brenden, burried Oct. 1, 1825 at Heidal church cemetery. Ingeborg was married 1st time Dec. 12, 1814 in Heidal church to Peder Larsen Bjølstad-eie who died Aug. 10, 1817.6) Ole Hansen b. 1800 at Faukstad-eie, chr. Juny 29, 1800 in Heidal church. (Father: Hans Thorsen) Died Jan. 26, 1871 at Randen, burried Feb. 11, 1871 at Heidal church cemetery.Married April 16, 1826 to7) Marit Olsdtr. Bilben-eie. Died at Randen Feb. 24, 1871, burried Mars 16, 1871 at Heidal church cemetery. I can not identify her christening in the church records.In 1865 Ole and Marit lived at one of the several 'Faukstad * ' in the census for Vaage. I suppose that the * means that they had their own little house or cottage at the farm Faukstad.8) Ener Hansen b. ca. 1729 at Holen farm, Heidal, died at Holen in Nov. 1805. Married 1st time July 10, 1757 to Rønnaug Olsdtr. who died in July 1785. Ener took over as owner and farmer at Holen after his father. When his oldest son from 1. marriage took over, Ener moved to the cotters place Brenden belonging to Fjerdingren with his 'new' family.Married 2nd time Mars 29, 1789 to9) Brith Rolvsdtr. Died at Holen Jan. 9, 1820, 69 years old. Burried Jan. 13, 1820 at Heidal church cemetery. I am not sure, but the only Brith Rolvsdaughter I have found in Vaage, is Rolv Trælvikens girlchild, christened Oct. 12, 1749 in Vågå church. (Rolv is listed in 1801 as 'retired' man at Trælvigen, Vågå, 78 years old and marrried 3rd times.)Ener and Brith and their son Ole and daughter Mari are the first mentioned cotters listed at Fjerdingren (Vågå) in 1801.10) Hans Hansen born ca. 1747. Died 1799 at Dypdalen, 53 years old, burried Feb. 1799 at Heidal church cemetery.Married July 19, 1778 toIngeborg Ellefsdtr. 47 years old in 1801. She is listed as a widow with three children; 9, 7 and 4 years old, living as a lodger and 'day worker' at Bjølstad farm. Her daughter Synnev (20) with an illegitimate child, and her son Hans, also a 'day worker', lived together with Ingeborg in 1801.

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Thank you ever so much, Aud Sandbu, for the time you have taken to give such a detailed reply! I look forward to sharing it with my mother over Christmas - her grandmother was the oldest girl Ingeborg. It is endlessly interesting to me. I especially appreciate the way you have explained how the cotters places relate to certain of the larger farms, for example Dypdalen belonging to Bjølstad. A person really needs the continuing thread of the placenames to make sure you are following the right line so I really appreciate your knowledge there. I am glad some of them had less common names, too - it is much easier to trace a Brith Rolvsdtr or Ingeborg Ellevsdtr than it is to track such a common name as Marit Olsdtr Bilben-eie. Her parents probably weren't even married yet at the time of the 1801 census so that eliminates using the farmname as a tracing tool for her, too. I know it takes time to do this work and I thank you very much for your kindness!

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

You have helped me so much already I am embarrassed to ask for more but I am excited about a theory I have & don't know who else to ask. Regarding :7) Marit Olsdtr Bilben-eie Died at Randen 1871. One of the four Olas living on Bilben in the 1801 census was Ole Simonsen, age 29, unmarried, soldier. In FamilySearch there is a wedding of an Ole Simonsen to Eldrid Andersdtr on Nov. 25, 1804 in Vaagaa. Then there is baptised a daughter Marit 27 Jan. 1805, father: Ole Simonsen. It does not say the mother but it would fit so well with my Marit who named her first daughter Eldrid! Have you any suggestions what I could do to prove whether this is the right Marit with parents Ole & Eldrid? There is an Eldrid Andersd in the 1801 census, a 20 year old servant girl on the gard Slette that could be the one who married O. Simonsen but FamilySearch didn't have any entries that could be her baptism though it should have been there if she was born in Vaagaa. Both the Ole Simonsens baptised in the right time period, one 18 Oct 1772 and one bapt. 12 Feb. 1769, list the father as Simen Lien. I just wish the FAmSearch listed confirmations and maybe that would help. Does it sound to you as if I am jumping to too many conclusions or what do think? I am still very thankful for the help you have given.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

First I want to say I am impressed by your talent in coordinating informations from FamilySearch and the 1801 census.Marit chr. Jan. 27, 1805 in Heidal church, is listed as daughter of Ole Simensen Lien in the church record. Her mother is not mentioned.The church record says about the wedding on Nov. 25, 1804: Soldier Ole Simensen and girl Eldri Andersdtr. No ages and no fathers names. But the names of the marriage witnesses, Ole Slette and Fredrik Toug, tell us that Ole Simensen was from the neighbourhood of Slette as we know from the census 1801, and Eldri Andersdtr. was from the neighbourhood of the farm Toug. I know about Toug, spelled Tho today, the farm lies near Otta, in Ottadalen, the valley between Otta and Vågå.I have taken a closer look at Eldri Andersdtr. The only one Eldri I found baptised at that time, was the daughter of Serg. Weggum. She was christened Aug. 8, 1783. I also know about 'sergeant Weggum', his name was Anders Syversen Veggum, born about 1738 at the farm Veggum in the neighbourhood of Toug, so I think we do have the right Eldri ! (Anders was brother to Ole Syversen, the first mentioned farmer at Weggum in 1801. Note that Weggum is spelled wrong in 1801: Heggum !)Anders Syversen Veggum married Marit Syversdtr. Åsåren in 1768, and got six or seven children (I have found only six): Syver (1770-1770), Kari (1771), Syver (1775), Ole (1778), Eldri (1783) and Syver (1786).Take a look at Fougstad in the census 1801 again, and you will find Anders Syversen and Marit Syversdtr. with their son Ole Andersen at the cotters place no. 3 under the farmer Thord Stenersen. (I did not know before you pointed out Marit born 1805, where 'Sergeant Weggum' lived as a retired military man, so thank you, Marilla !)About Eldri, the daughter of Ole Hansen and Marit Olsdtr. Randen: she was not their oldest daughter. First they got Marit born July 5, 1826 (about two month after their wedding) at Faukstad-eie, chr. July 23, 1826 at Heidal church. This Marit was named after her fathers mother listed as Mari in census 1801, but in the church record she is listed as Marit Iversdtr. when she was married to Hans Thordsen Juni 9, 1793.Eldri was named after her morthers mother, quite according to the tradition.Between Marit b. 1826 and Eldri b. 1834, I can only find a girl, stillborn Mars 10, 1828. And after Eldri, Ole and Marit Randen got a boychild; Hans born Nov. 10, 1836 at Faukstad-eie, chr. Dec. 11, 1836 in Heidal church. These are the only children I have found so far.As you certainly understand, I am convinced that you have found the right Marit, but I am not sure we have sufficiently proved it. What du you think?If so, the ancestor tree of Ingeborg will be as listed below, but please note that informations about the gg grandparents and further back are collected from second sources. (I am sorry the list is not in English, but I think you read Norwegian quite well? Just tell me if you want something translated.)1. Ingeborg Enersdtr. Randen født 05.04.1856, Randen under Faukstad søre, Heidal, døpt: 12.05.1856, Heidal.Foreldre2. Einar Olsen Brenden født 05.05.1821, Brenden under Fjerdingren, Heidal, døpt: 31.05.1821, Heidal, gift 12.07.1855, Heidal, Eldri Olsdtr. Randen, født 18.05.1834, Randen under Faukstad søre, Heidal, døpt: 08.06.1834, Heidal, død 06.04.1896, Randen, gravlagt: 18.04.1896, Heidal. Einar døde 02.02.1913, Randen under Faukstad, Heidal, gravlagt: 15.02.1913, Heidal. Einar og Eldri finnes på Randen søndre i Heidal både i 1865 og 1875. I 1900 var Einar enkemann og føderådsmann samme sted hos sønnen Peder.3. Eldri Olsdtr. Randen født 18.05.1834, Randen under Faukstad søre, Heidal, døpt: 08.06.1834, Heidal, død 06.04.1896, Randen, gravlagt: 18.04.1896, Heidal.Besteforeldre4. Ole Einarsen Brenden født 1791, Holen, Heidal, døpt: 23.10.1791, Heidal, gift (1) 22.10.1820, Heidal, Ingeborg Hansdtr. Dypdalen, født 1790, Dypdalen under Bjølstad, Heidal, døpt: 14.03.1790, Heidal, død 16.09.1825, Brenden under Fjerdingren, Heidal, gravlagt: 01.10.1825, Heidal, gift (2) 10.07.1831, Heidal, Ingeborg Paulsdtr. Tho-eie, født 1789, Heidal, døpt: 20.09.1789, Heidal. Ole døde 26.02.1861, Brenden under Fjerdingren, Heidal, gravlagt: 05.03.1861, Heidal. Døde 70 år gl. iflg. kb.5. Ingeborg Hansdtr. Dypdalen født 1790, Dypdalen under Bjølstad, Heidal, døpt: 14.03.1790, Heidal, gift (1) 26.12.1814, Heidal, Peder Larsen Bjølstad-eie, død 10.08.1817, Bjølstadeie, Heidal, gravlagt: 16.08.1817, Heidal, gift (2) 22.10.1820, Heidal, Ole Einarsen Brenden, født 1791, Holen, Heidal, døpt: 23.10.1791, Heidal, død 26.02.1861, Brenden under Fjerdingren, Heidal, gravlagt: 05.03.1861, Heidal. Ingeborg døde 16.09.1825, Brenden under Fjerdingren, Heidal, gravlagt: 01.10.1825, Heidal. Døpt som Hans Dypdalens barn. Døde i barselseng.6. Ole Hansen Faukstad-eie født 1800, 'Legd Faukstad', Heidal, døpt: 29.06.1800, Heidal, gift 16.04.1826, Heidal, Marit Olsdtr. Lien, født 1805, Lien, Heidal, døpt: 27.01.1805, Heidal, død 24.02.1871, Randen under Faukstad, Heidal, gravlagt: 16.03.1871, Heidal. Ole døde 26.01.1871, Randen under Faukstad, Heidal, gravlagt: 11.02.1871, Heidal. Døpt som Hans Thorsens dåpsbarn, legd Faukstad. Ole og Marit finnes i 1865 som føderådsfolk under Faukstad *. Stjerna i folketellinga betyr sannsynligvis at de hadde tilhold i ei stue for seg selv på Faukstads eiendom utenfor husmannsplassen Randen. Døde 70 1/2 år gl. iflg. kb.7. Marit Olsdtr. Lien født 1805, Lien, Heidal, døpt: 27.01.1805, Heidal, død 24.02.1871, Randen under Faukstad, Heidal, gravlagt: 16.03.1871, Heidal. Døpt som Ole Simensen Liens dåpsbarn. Døde 68 år gl. iflg. kb.Oldeforeldre8. Einar Hansen Holen født ca. 1729, Holen, Heidal, gift (1) 10.07.1757, Heidal, Rønnaug Olsdtr., født ca. 1735, død 1785, Holen, Heidal, gravlagt: .07.1785, Heidal, gift (2) 29.03.1789, Heidal, Brith Rolfsdtr. Trælviken, født 1749, Trælviken, Vågå, døpt: 12.10.1749, Vågå, død 09.01.1820, Holen, Heidal, gravlagt: 13.01.1820, Heidal. Einar døde .11.1805, Holen, Heidal. Eier og bruker på Holen i Heidalen, men flyttet til Brenden under Fjerdingren med sin 'nye' familie etter at han som enkemann giftet seg på nytt i 1789. Finnes derfor som husmann under Fjerdingren i Heidal (Vågå) i 1801. Døde 76 år gl. iflg. kb.9. Brith Rolfsdtr. Trælviken født 1749, Trælviken, Vågå, døpt: 12.10.1749, Vågå, død 09.01.1820, Holen, Heidal, gravlagt: 13.01.1820, Heidal. Døde 69 år gl. iflg. kb.10. Hans Hansen Dypdalen født ca. 1747, Heidal, gift 19.07.1778, Heidal, Ingeborg Ellefsdtr., født ca. 1755, Heidal. Hans døde 1799, Dypdalen under Bjølstad, Heidal, gravlagt: .02.1799, Heidal. Døde 53 år gl. iflg. kb.11. Ingeborg Ellefsdtr. født ca. 1755, Heidal.12. Hans Tordsen Faukstad-eie født ca. 1766, under Faukstad, Heidal, gift 09.06.1793, Heidal, Marit Iversdtr., født ca. 1768, Heidal. Forlovere: Østen Slette og Knut Kagrud. Denne Hans kan være Tord Knutsens dåpsbarn, døpt i april 1766. (Folio 52.).13. Marit Iversdtr. født ca. 1768, Heidal. Muligens Iver Krukhaugens barn døpt 28/8-1768. (folio 56.).14. Ole Simensen Lien født 1772, Lien, Heidal, døpt: 18.10.1772, Heidal, gift 25.11.1804, Sel el. Heidal, Eldri Andersdtr. Veggum, født 1783, Veggum, Sel, døpt: 10.08.1783, Sel. Står oppført som soldat Ole Simensen ved vielsen. Kausjonister var Ole Slette og Fredrik Tho.15. Eldri Andersdtr. Veggum født 1783, Veggum, Sel, døpt: 10.08.1783, Sel. Døpt som Serg. Weggums dåpsbarn. Faddere: John Ekre, Anders Sæter, Paul Ekre, Ragnhild ..?.., Kari Veggum.Tippoldeforeldre18. Rolf Olsen Trælviken født ca. 1723, Vågå, gift (1) 20.02.1754, Vågå, Boel Larsdtr., født Vågå, gift (2) 23.06.1758, Vågå, Ragnhild Olsdtr., gift (3) 04.08.1775, Vågå, Kari Johnsdtr..19. Boel Larsdtr. født Vågå.28. Simen Olsen Lien.30. Anders Syversen Veggum født ca. 1738, Veggum, Sel, gift 02.10.1768, Sel, Marit Syversdtr. Åsåren, født 1748, Åsåren, Sel, døpt: 04.12.1748, Sel. Ved vielsen innført som Sergeant Anders Syversen, og ved dåpen til barna vekselsvis nevnt som Anders Weggum, Sergeant Weggum og Corp. Weggum. Anders og Marit finnes som husfolk under Faukstad i 1801. De skal ha fått seks barn tilsammen.31. Marit Syversdtr. Åsåren født 1748, Åsåren, Sel, døpt: 04.12.1748, Sel.Tipptippoldeforeldre60. Syver Olsen Veggum født 1701, Veggum, Sel, død 1750, Veggum. Var 'Capitain des Armes' i 27 år, og det skal finnes en kårde og en sabel etter ham.62. Syver Torgersen Åsåren født 1705, Harildstad, gift Eldri Olsdtr.. Syver døde Åsåren.63. Eldri Olsdtr..3. tipp-oldeforeldre120. Ole Andersen Veggum født 1660, Veggum, Sel, gift Anne Syversdtr., død Veggum. Ole døde 1724, Veggum. Fikk i 1712 slått fast gårdens grenser. Generalmajor Kruse gjorde karv på odelsretten da Ole brukte gården, men måtte gi seg.121. Anne Syversdtr. død Veggum.124. Torger Rasmusen Åsmundstad født Kvikne, Nord-Fron, gift Berthe Syverdtr. Åsåren, født ca. 1678, Åsåren øvre, Sel, død 1742, Åsåren. Torger døde 1753, Åsåren øvre, Sel, gravlagt: .07.1753, Sel.125. Berthe Syverdtr. Åsåren født ca. 1678, Åsåren øvre, Sel, død 1742, Åsåren. Døde 64 år gl. iflg. kb.4. tipp-oldeforeldre240. Anders Olsen gift Ragnhild Akselsdtr. Veggum, født Veggum, Sel.241. Ragnhild Akselsdtr. Veggum født Veggum, Sel.248. Rasmus Torgersen Åsmundstad født ca. 1630, Åsmundstad, Kvikne i Nord-Fron, gift Marit Paulsdtr. Harildstad, født ca. 1638, Harildstad nedre, Kvikne i Nord-Fron.249. Marit Paulsdtr. Harildstad født ca. 1638, Harildstad nedre, Kvikne i Nord-Fron.250. Syver Pedersen Åsåren gift Sigrid Fredriksdtr. Selsjord, død før 17.07.1700, Åsåren øvre, Sel. Syver døde før 06.04.1717, Åsåren øvre, Sel.251. Sigrid Fredriksdtr. Selsjord død før 17.07.1700, Åsåren øvre, Sel.5. tipp-oldeforeldre482. Aksel Olsen Veggum gift Marit Engebrethsdtr.. Aksel døde 1671, Veggum. Dokumenter fra 1643 forteller at Aksel levde på Veggum allerede da. I skifte etter Aksel datert 31.05.1671 kommer det frem at Aksel i hvert fall hadde to døtre; Ragnhild og Marit, og at kona het Marit Engebrethsdtr. På den tiden var Veggum krongods og halvgård.483. Marit Engebrethsdtr..

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Tusen takk, Aud! Wow! That is an example of the unexpected and fun in genealogy - here I was thinking 'my poor Eldri, I think you are the right girl but that's the end of the trail for you' and then because you found the Weggum baptism and knew about Sergeant Weggum and that his first name was Anders, your information made such a big addition to the Eldri branch! I know only the Norsk words that are commonly used in genealogy so I would appreciate very much a translation of the sentence in #120. Ole Andersen Veggum that starts with 'Generalmajor Kruse'...Thanks again, so much!

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

Ole Andersen Veggum, born 1660 at Veggum in Sel, married to Anne Syversdatter, died at Veggum. Ole died in 1724 at Veggum. Records from 1712 show that he had the borders of the farm established. General Major Kruse claimed the farm based on allocial rights when Ole was using the farm, but was unsuccessful.After the reformation (conversion from catholic to protestant Christianity) a lot of farms in Norway became the ownership of the Crown, the Norwegian term is 'Krongods'. In the later part of the 1600, the king (Fredrik III?) started to sell out his land for economical reasons, and many farms in the northern parts of Gudbrandsdalen were bought by colonel Ditlef Brochdorff. Among them was Veggum.His son, Christian August Brochdorff (His military title was 'rittmester', which I believe is the rank of captain in the cavalery), inherited most of the farms from his father. He started to sell off the farms and Ole Andersen bought Veggum. General Major Kruse was married into the family and did not like the idea of the farms being sold out of the family. He therefore started legal processes to reclaim them based on allocial rights. Over Veggum he lost and Ole Andersen continued as the owner.

[Gjest kai m kveum]

Tillater meg et par spørsmål vedrørende Hans Hansen, f. 1746 og hans kone Imbjør Ellefsdtr., f.ca. 1755. De hadde, så langt som jeg vet, 5 barn: Synnef, Hans, Mari, Imbjør Hansdtr., f. 1790 og Ellef. Hadde de i tillegg en datter Ingeborg som også var født i 1790, eller er min Imbjør feil? I FT 1801 finner jeg ingen Ingeborg. For den saks skyld finner jeg heller ikke noen Imbjør, f. 1790 som passer inn med disse foreldrene. Derimot finner jeg ei Imbjør Hansdtr, 12 år i 1801 med foreldrene: Hans Hansen Heldeneie, 34 år i 1801, sergjant og husmand, g.m. Kari Johannesdtr., 35 år i 1801 som kanskje kan passe bedre?kai m kveum

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I have a question -- what is(was) the literal meaning of 'toug' ? Thank you, Roger.

[Gjest Lars G. Hukkelaas]

From the book 'Norsk etternavnleksikon' 'Tho' farm name from Sel Gudbrandsdal. means 'Graskledd fjellhylle' (Grass covered rock) Lars

[Gjest John Morten Malerbakken]

Since this discussion was initiated by Marilla, I would like to suggest that those answering in this particular debate use English. Marilla has stated that she can understand Norwegian expressions used in genealogy like married, babtised, dead and so on, but also said that she does not read Norwegian.Therefore, I have taken the liberty of translating the posting from Kai Kveum for the English users of this particular discussion:'Allow me to ask a couple of questions regarding Hans Hansen, b. 1746 and his wife Imbjør Ellefsdatter, b. approx. 1755. As far as I know, they had 5 children; Synnef, Hans, Mari, Imbjør, b. 1790 and Ellef. Did they also have a daughter Ingeborg who was also born in 1790, or is my Imbjør wrong?In the 1801 census I can not find any Ingeborg. At the same time I do not find an Imbjør b. 1790 either which seem to be related to these two parents. I do, however, find one Imbjør Hansdatter, 12 years in 1801 with the parents: Hans Hansen Heldeneie, 34 years in 1801, sergeant and cottar, married to Kari Johannesdtatter, 35 years in 1801 who could be a better match?'

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Special thanks once more to Aud for her clear translation & helpful explanation! Thank you also to everyone else who has contributed and just now John Morten for your thoughtful translation. Kai, if I understand correctly, you are concerned about distinguishing between Ingeborg and Imbjør? My greatgrandmother Enersdtr Randen (#1 in the anetavle above) used both names. While most people in Canada called her Ingeborg, her church documents are usually Imbjør so it was natural to me to think her grandmother might have done the same, sometimes appearing as Ingeborg, sometimes Imbiør and sometimes Ingbjør a form 'in between'! In Aud's answer (#3 in this theme above) she has listed under entry #11 where they are found in the 1801 census at the Bjølstad farm. Up to the level of the oldeforeldre all the farms have been in Heidal and I think Helden is maybe in a neighboring sokn rather? Working back from the known, I think it is the wedding of Ole Einarsen and Ingeborg Hansdtr that tells us we are looking for a girl from under Bjølstad so that is why Hans Dybdalen's dotter seemed to be the good fit? Aud, I know, could explain much better than I am doing. Are you also related to Hans Dybdalen, Kai? I was looking at that baptism Oct 12, 1744 listed in Family Search of Hans born to Hans Povelson and Synne Rasmusdtr and wondering if there is a farm name mentioned in the original in case that might be him.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

To Kai M. Kveum:We are discussing the same person. You are using a spelling of Ingeborg which is based on local dialect, while I have chosen to standardise the name. Both the censuses and the church records show numerous spellings for this name; Embjør, Imbjør, Ymbjør, Emjer, Imjer, Emjør, Ymjør, Ingebør, Engebor, Engebør, Ingbor are just some examples. All depending on who was holding the pen when the name was entered into the records, so I decided to stick to one variation, in this case Ingeborg. If that is correct or not, can certainly be discussed, but that would be a different debate.As for Ingeborg (Imbjør) Hansdatter Dypdalen, b. 1790, I can only refer to what I have written above in my first posting under this thread. But I would like to re-trace some information:Ingeborg died in 1825, and is recorded as Ingeborg(!) Hansdatter Fjerdingreneie, 36 years, died in childbed.At her second wedding in 1820 with Ole Einarsen Fjerdingreneie she is listed as widow Ingeborg(!) Hansdatter Bjølstadeie, 30 years. The witnesses were Simen Fjerdingren and Einar Holen.At the first wedding in 1814, she is described as maid Ingbiør(!) Hansdatter Bjølstadeie. Her age is not recorded, but the witnesses are Peder Olsen Bjølstadeie and Arne Larsen Prestegårdseie.At both weddings, the witnesses are living in Heidal. I believe this is sufficient documentation to support that both bride and groom in both cases came from Heidal.Based on the information above, which also states that Ingeborg was born in Heidal around 1790, I am unable to find another candidate than Ingeborg (Imbjør) Hansdatter Dypdalen.Ingeborg is found in the 1801 census with her mother and smaller siblings as tennants under Bjølstad, Ingeborg is listed with the name Imbiør(!). Her age is declared to be 9 years, but the composition of the rest of the family confirms that this is the same Ingeborg that I have found as the child baptised as daughter of Hans Dybdalen.I realise that there may still be doubts as to whether I have found the right Ingeborg. I would therefore welcome more information about how you have drawn the conclusion that Imbjør, 12 years in 1801, daughter of Hans Hansen Heldeneie and his wife Kari Johannesdatter would be the right one. Maybe you have other information about Ingeborg Hansdatter Dypdalen?

[Gjest kai m kveum]

We must not let this discussion become touchy. I have offered no conclusion but merely asked a few questions that I find very relevant. The reason for using the Norwegian language was to get in contact with Aud and clarify my questionmarks before going too public. Might have been a bit clumsy but nevertheless: The Index of the census of 1801 contains several pages of Imbjør. It contains 11 Imbjør Hansdtr. of witch three are 12 years old in 1801. None of them are mentioned under the farm Bjølstad. The same census contains 7 Ingebor, none with the patronymic Hansdtr. and 2 Ingeborg without the patronymic Hansdtr.. Under the farm Bjøstad/Dybedalen a girl Imbjør Hansdtr. is mentioned as 9 years old in 1801, that means born about 1792.(not to be found in the index) The three other girls are 12 years in 1801, born about 1789. Give and take a few years they can all be born in 1790 but they all carry the name Imbiør and not Ingebor(g) which is also used in the census hence my question and suggestion of an other Hans Hansen. However, I can not find that you have mentioned Imbjørs daughter: Ingbiør Pedersdtr.. The name Ingbiør, easily converted to Ingeborg, could also qualify as candidate. (see your answer nr. 13)Information obtained from Nordalsarkivet in Vågå reads: Married 19/7 1778 Hans Hansen Dybdalen (died feb. 1799, 53 years of age) and Imbjør Ellefsdtr. ( died 19/9 1855, 100 5/8 years of age) They had the following children: 1. Hans Hansen, born 10/12 1778 2. Sønev Hansdtr., born 26/3 1781 3. Mari Hansdtr., born 28/3 1784 4. Imbjør Hansdtr., born 19/3 1790, dead 26/10 1829 (you have 16.09.1825). Married 25/12 1814 to Peder Larsen, he died 10/8 1817, only 24 years of age, profession shoemaker. They lived at Bjølstadeie and only one child mentioned: Baptized 23/3 1815 Ingbiør Pedersdtr.. 5. Ellev Hansen, born 21/7 1793 6. Marit Hansdtr., born 27/8 1797Nr. 1 and 3 are of particular interest to me and I have all the people descending from them till today. I have no more information about Ingbiør but maybe Aud can dig up somthing.kai

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Could it be that the Rolf Olssen who married Mari Olsdtr 14 Nov 1748 in Vaagaa (per Fam. Search) is also the much-married Rolf Trælviken?I am also hopeful that the Imbjor Ellefsen baptised 09 Feb 1755 -father Ellef Andersen in Vaagaa is the one who grew up to marry Hans Dypdalen?

[Gjest kai m kveum]

I can give an answer to your last sentence: Information is collected from Nordalsarkivet in Vågå. Ellef Andersen, b. 1721, married 1744 to Mari Larsdtr.. Ellef Andersen steinfinnsbøeie, 15 years of age in 1736, servant – promise to learn Best men: Tor Bjørnstad and Peder Langrusten. Children: Brith Ellevsdtr., b. 1747 Lars Ellevsen, b. 1749 Anne Ellevsdtr., b. 1752 and Imbjør Ellevsdtr., b.1755 married to Hans Hansen, b. 1778

[Gjest Trond Myrstad]

Kai,This was new information for me - I didn't know the name of Imbjør's parents ! What is the meaning of 'promise to learn Best men ' ?

[Gjest kai m kveum]

My kids have taken the dictionarys and as usual they can not find them when needed. Promise to learn: he has promised the priest to learn before beeing confirmed. best man in the meaning of witness when you marry. kai

[Gjest Marilla Schenk]

Great! Then do you think he is the same Ellev Andersen aged 80 showed living on Kruke in the 1801 census? If he is, and his dotter Imb. lived to be 100 as you stated above I guess he passes on the genes for longevity even if he hadn't yet learned his catechism as well as the priest would have liked!

[Gjest Per Håkon Christiansen]

Variations over the name Ingeborg in the dialects in Gudbrandsdalen are numerous. Here are a couple of more to look for, if you want to capture them all: Ømbjør, Ømbjørg, Ømbør.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

Now I have four weddings on a Rolf Olsen !1) 14. Nov. 1748: Soldier Rolv Olsen and maid Mari Olsdatter. Witnesses: Knut Storvik and Syver Grev.2) 20. Feb. 1754: Soldier Rolv Olsen and maid Boel Larsdatter. Witnesses: Tosten Rottem and Jacob Fredriksen.3) 23. Juny 1758: Widower Rolf Olsen and maid Ragnhild Olsdatter. Witnesses: Østen and Jacob Kvarberg.4) 04. Aug. 1775: Widower Rolf Olsen and widow Kari Johnsdatter. Witnesses: Iver Klones and Guttorm Erlandsen.I don't know whether every four Rolf Olsen is the much-married Rolf Trælviken. If we shall trust the census 1801 which says that he was married only three times, one of them must be another person. If so, I think no. 2 is not Rolf Trælviken.It means that I have given wrong information about the parents of Brith and their wedding in my third posting. Please note and correct that !Thank you for pointing out the 1748 wedding, Marilla. I had not discovered this wedding in the church record.Still I am not convinced that the Brith Rolfsdatter who married Einar Hansen Holen, was daughter of Rolf Trælviken and Mari Olsdatter. Even though the marriage date between Rolf and Mari fits the birth date of Brith, and the oldest daughter to Einar and Brith probably was named after her mothers mother (because Einar had been married before, and the oldest daughter from that marriage was named after his mother), there is one thing I have not clarified yet:The witnesses to the wedding between Einar and Brith are listed as Knut Kagrud and Hans Hagen. Knut Kagrud was a neighbour to Einar Holen, but I do not know who Hans Hagen was. He could be Hans Kagrudhagen (grandfather to the farmer at Kagrudhagen in 1801), and that makes me confuser as to whether Brith was born in Heidal or at Trælviken in Vågå.

[Gjest Aud Sandbu]

I have taken a closer look at the death date of Ingeborg Hansdatter which Kai M. Kveum have obtained from Norddalsarkivet, Vågå.The chuch record tells about the woman who died 26. Oct. 1829 : Ingeborg Hansdtr. Bjølstadeie, 59 years old. Only the age when she died, says that she could not be the daughter of Hans Hansen and Ingeborg Ellefdatter Dybdalen who was born 1790. And she died at a Bjølstadeie. Ingeborg Hansdatter Dybdalen was married second time in 1820 to Ole Einarsen Brenden, and lived at Brenden, a Fjerdingreneie when she died. So I do not agree with Norddalsarkivet in this death date of Ingeborg Hansdatter Dybdalen.Besides, the birth dates of Ingeborg Hansdatter Dybdalen and her siblings obtained from Norddalsarkivet, are not correct in accordance with the church record. In best cases the dates are baptising dates:Hans Hansen bapt. 2. Sunday in Advent 1778 (church year 1779) I.e. 6. Dec. 1778.Synnev Hansdatter bapt. Dom Laetare 1781, i.e. 25. Mars 1781.Mari Hansdatter bapt. Fest. Annu.1784, i.e. 25. Mars 1784 ?Ingeborg Hansdatter bapt. Dom Laetare 1790, i.e. 14. Mars 1790.Ellev Hansen bapt. 8. Sunday after Trinitatis 1793, i.e. 21. July 1793.Marit Hansdatter bapt. 11. Sunday after Trinitatis 1797, i.e. 27. Aug. 1797.

[Gjest kai m kveum]

Aud! You have right, I have wrong. Sincerely kai

[Gjest Helge Hålåsæter]

Dear Marilla, Aud Sandbu described one of my ancestors, sargeant Anders Weggum. If you wish to contact me, my email address is: helge.haa@tiscali.no . Sincerely, Helge Hålåsæter, N- 2670 Otta