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Gjest Deborah Moseng

[#18012] Looking for ancestors on Sesseng Farm in Selbu, Norway in 1891

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Gjest Deborah Moseng

I am hoping someone would be willing to help me find more of my family who came from Norway. My Grandmother was Ingeborg (went by Nelson here in America). I found her parent's names on a death certificate I sent for and they were Nils Lesswig and Karen (Kari) Jonasdatter. Another Norwegian list helped me find them on the Sesseng farm in Selbu, Norway. I would like this confirmed with the people who were at the farm in 1891 if someone would have the time and be so kind.Any other information about this family would be appreciated as far as extended family, exact dates etc. I had never heard about Kari (daughter) or the two boys so any information about them would really be great although I know basically nothing about Marit (Mary) or Sigrid (Sarah) either other than I know Mom talked about them being here in America.I appreciate any information anyone can get for me. Thank you very much. I am quite new at the genealogy stuff but am getting very addicted and because of all the help I am getting, I am learning lots. Deborah

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Gjest Kjell Hamberg

Deborah! There is a series of socalled 'bygdebøker' for Selbu and several of the volumes present a meticulously detailed cronological genealogy for all farms in Selbu parish. I phoned my sister-in-law (she lives in Selbu) and asked her to look up your great grandparents:Your great grandparents were Nils Pedersen(Persen) Sæter, born 1825 and Kari Jonasdatter Solem, born 1831. The surname Lesswig wasn't mentioned, but might have been used at the time.They were married in 1854 and had 7 children: 1) Peder(Per) b.1856 2) Kari (1859-1888) (there was some extra info) 3) Marit b.1862 4) Jonas (1865-1881) 5) Anne b.1869 6) Sigrid b.1873 7) Ingeborg b.1877.Nils and Kari must have been relatively poor, but were apparently allowed to settle and clear a small cotter's farm on land belonging to 'north Sesseng' farm. In the 1865 census for Selbu it's registered as 'Sesseng (plads)', but later became known as 'Sessengbakken'.Kari died in 1885 and Nils eventually moved back to the farm he was born (Sæter) where he die din 1902. However, in the 1900 census for Selbu he's living alone at north Sesseng.Some of the farms and genealogical info is actually available on the Internet, but unfortunately the Sesseng and Sæter farms isn't there yet. Look at:http://www.selbunett.no/bygdebok/default.aspI did, however, find info about Kari Jonasdatter and her parents at the farm Solemshagen:Solemshagen (Jonashåggån) - Gnr 7/4 - Volume 3 - page 128Farmers:1809-1857 Jonas Olsen fra Øver-Solem, b. 1779, d. 1852. He was a taylor. M. 1801 to Kari Persdt. from Øvergarden Flønes, b. 1778, d. 1829. M.II 1830 to Kari Haldorsdt. Fuglem from Nordsto, b. 1796, d. 1859 Children in 1. marriage: 1. Ola d.e., b. 1801, m.t. Kari Tomasdt. Slind, ref. Flønesberget. 2. Ingeborg, b. 1804, m.t. Ola Olsen Stamnes, ref. Stamnesåsen. 3. Goro, b. 1807, m.t Jon Nilssen Overvik, ref. Buret under Overvik. 4. Per, b. 1811, m.t. Siri Mikkelsdt. Moen, ref Yster Mobakken. 5. Kari d.e., b. 1815. 6. Ola d.y., b. 1818, took over after his father. 7. Marit, b. 1822, died in infancy. Children in 2. marriage: 1. Kari d.y., f. 1831, m.t. Nils Persen Sæter, ref. Sessengbakkan. 2. Haldor, b. 1834, m.t. Gjertrud Gunnarsdt. Bellet, ref. Litjtrøa (Oppheim) under Fuglem.Since I don't have access myself to these books, I can only refer what I scribbled down and later found on the Internet. The info should, however, give you something to start out from.Regards Kjell Hamberg

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Gjest Deb Moseng

Thank you so much for what you have given me. I am new at this and this is my first try at this site and it is hard not reading or understanding Norwegian at all.That was very interesting hearing a little of the personal side of the family although it is sad thinking of them being so poor and him (GGrandfather being left alone). Do you think, or does your sister think, that the boys both left for America too or could they have just moved off the farm? I wouldn't think they would have though and left their father alone there. Did lots of children just leave their old parents alone and come to America? How could GGrandfather afford to pay for the children to go to America if he was so poor? Do you know if the family in 1900 on the Sesseng farm was in any way related to GGrandfather or was he just living on the farm with them or how do you think that went?Did your sister mention if there are any living relatives yet in Selbu from any of this family? I would love to learn more about the family and would love to email or write to someone there who knew of the family or any living relatives?You also helped me to understand the Sesseng/Bakkene farm thing, thanks. I think the Sesseng/Lesswig confusion goes like this (the people from the other Norwegian list figured this out)--I had the name Nils Lesswig from a death certificate and they figured out that the writing (or sound) of the S and L looked alike for the beginning of the name and then the end could have been some like that too so maybe the name was actually starting out as Sesseng and ended up as Lesswig (Americanized)?Thanks so much for the information you gave me. Any information concerning this family fact wise or personally is what I am hoping to get more of. Deb

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Gjest Kjell Hamberg

I don't think your grandmother's brothers emigrated. The youngest, Jonas, died when he was 16 years old and I believe I located Peder at Sveen in Selbu in the 1900 census with wife and children. (He might have emigrated later, though).The sister Kari (born 1859) died in Trondheim in 1888, married and with children.I have also scanned the 1900 census and identified candidates to some of the other siblings, but one need to see the parish church records to find out of they are who you hope them to be.I'm confident that there must be descendant living in Norway, but since I don't have access to the books I referred to, it's difficult to say where to start. (One must actually have all of them, because it's necessary to jump back and forth according to the references to sort out the detailed genealogy).With respect to Nils living at north Sesseng in 1900, I can agree that it appears inconsiderate, even cruel, to let one's old father live on his own (and publically supported on top of that), but who's to say why it was like that?Kjell Hamberg

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Gjest Deborah Moseng

Thank you again. I had never heard about the brothers and that sort of answers that question (a little anyway). You said there was more information about Kari (daughter) in the books, was it just that she was married and her children or more personal information? Did you get the other family information that you referred to or would it be too hard being you don't have the books, I would love all that information, is there a way for me to get the books and are they in English or all Norwegian? I have heard so much about them I would love to see what it all says about my family in there although it doesn't sound like it is all good about them. I wonder why the son wouldn't have stayed with his father as most did in those days, right? I think it is in those books where someone told me it goes back hundreds of years (?) with the Sesseng farm or our family? I hear that and would love to get the information.I did go to that site you told me to go to about Selbu and found it is one I have went to several other times when people have told me about it but I can't understand any of it as it is all Norwegian, is there a way to get it in English? I couldn't find English on the site for translating? There are so many great sites that I am so uncomfortable on as I can't read them and everything I do is guesswork.Does it say what Jonas died from or Kari? Can you give me any English sites that I can find out any more information about this family and the Sesseng farm? I have done Google searches and found some information but not much directly about my family. I am doing the Family Tree Maker so any exact dates and faacts and information is so great, thank you so much for your time. If you ever want anything done in America and I can help, please let me know. I also have access to Ancestry.com general and the census if you need any lookups on there (although I am new and not so good at it yet! I sure would try though). Deb

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Gjest Jan Peter Wiborg

Hi Debra, it's Jan here. I see you found the way to this Webdebatt... :-) I found a page which might be interesting regarding the 'Sesseng-track': http://home.online.no/~gormen/slekt/per07743.htm#0This Jonas Olsen Øver-Solem (1779-1852) is Karen (Kari) Jonasdatter's father.The page I found only lists his first marriage with Kari Persdatter (1778-1829), but you can atleast trace his ancestors. According to Kjell Hamberg, Jonas got married again in 1830 with Kari Haldorsdtatter Fuglem from Nordsto (1796-1859). She is 'your' Kari's mother. Kari was really a poular first name in this family! Both his wifes where named Kari, and he named two of his girls the same. From the farm book, Kari born 1831 is referred to as d.y., ie. 'the younger'. This is because Jonas also had a girl named Kari in the first marriage.Jan

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Gjest Nancy (Fostervold) Halvorson

Hi, Just peeked in on this one, saw the Selbu name. I have a bunch of people from Selbu (Grotte). I know the names Fuglem, Moen, Solem, Sæter and Slind (Slinden or Slinda) are listed somewhere in my information. Maybe the people in Norway would better know if the Grotte farm is located close to where you are asking about. You could be real shirt-tail relation to me, On my grandma Fostervold's mothers side of the family. I don't have it typed into the family tree program yet. There's so much information it's overwhelming!! Later I will try and look if any of your names match up with any of mine. (they sound familiar) If they do you have a ton of people in Minnesota and North Dakota. I'll get back to you. Nancy

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Gjest Nancy (Fostervold) Halvorson

I'm related to the people in the link Jan Peter Wiborg sent you. He has them listed as Grotem, where we have them as Grotte/Johnson. My great grandmother was a Grotte/Johnson. It looks like he has a good sight, will have to study a bit. If you can find your people on this link, let me know.

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Gjest Deb Moseng

Thanks all of you! This is so much fun. I understand what you mean about getting so much information though and it taking a while to sink in. I was collecting everything until I had it 'proven' before putting it on the tree and now I am putting it on and then proving it as it is much easier for me to 'figure it out' that way.It would make sense I have living relatives in Minnesota and North Dakota as my Grandmother settled in North Dakota and raised her family and her sister settled in Halstad, Minnesota and married Ole Halstad and they had five children that lived in the area of Halstad and Ada, Minnesota. Lots of my relatives live by Fargo, North Dakota. I don't recognize those names but we are talking another generation of names now.I would love to find out more about the Selbu people. I sure wish Icould read Norwegian so I could use those sites on the Internet! I am waiting to hear more about the Kari (Grandmother's sister that died in Trondheim at an early age). I am interested int he health issues to put on the family tree.Thanks so much for all the information, again I am so excited to get on here to see what you all have for me! Deb

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Gjest Deb Moseng

Jan, I have been having a ball looking at that page you sent. I can even almost understand it as it has real basic words that I can figure out (Norwegian). I really can get confused with all the same names all over the place though. I have to really think when putting them in my family tree.I am excited to hear what I find out next. I get to feeling like I almost know the family, that is what happened when I was doing Grandfather's side in Sweden, the more I heard about the area and looked at pictures etc the more I felt I knew them. I am really hoping that someone from Selbu would contact me so I could ask about the area more and also ask if they knew about the little cotter's farm my G Grandparents had on the Sesseng farm as that is so interesting to me. I want to know more about how they lived although I know they were poor. Last night I did some google searches and found out what a cotter's farm was (found some web sites with people who had relatives from them--and even had some pictures of what was left of their ancestors homes there, very interesting).Anyway, thanks again for all the info, waiting to hear anything more anyone is willing to tell me or look up. Deb

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Gjest Deb Moseng

I am still hoping to find out more about my family in Selbu. I would like to know more about Kari's family--about what she died from and anything else about her family in Trondheim. I would love to hear anything about the cotter's farm they had on the Sesseng farm and understand more about that, what type of farming etc (crops, live animals etc?). I would still like to understand the farming system more, like the Sesseng farm, was that named after the first owners or how did it get its name? I guess what I am saying is I would just love to know more about where my ancestors came from. I know they were poor, how poor in relation to others in that time and place? Our family is having so much fun learning all about our grandparents and their families and feeling sad for them too I guess.I check this daily hoping to find something more out about Selbu and my ancestors. Thank you for any information you can provide. Deb

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Gjest Kjell Hamberg

Deborah! Do you have an e-mail address? I got my sister-in-law to make copies of the pages in the 'Selbu bygdebok' to verify some of the info you're interested in. Since you don't read norwegian I'll translate and edit it to make it more readable.The info doesn't answer all your questions, but it brings you some steps forward.According to what is written about the family your grandmother Ingeborg was the only one of the children to emigrate, but I understand from what you write that two of her sisters also came over? Is that correct? It will ease the search here if I know who not to look for.Kjell Hamberg

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Gjest Deb Moseng

Oh, thank you so much for answering again. I was afraid I had lost you. My email address is dmoseng@charter.net. I am on here almost every day off and on. Ingeborg was my Grandmother and she came over in 1897 according to our census. Her sister Ane (Anna here in USA) came in 1892 I believe (according to our US census). She was also on the Selbupeople 1914 census (people from Selbu living in US)(Mrs Ole Halstad in Halstad, Minnesota). My mother also talked about a Mary and Sarah living here in the US. I haven't found them but my one cousin remembers meeting a Sarah? So all in all I think all of them came over but the two boys and the Kari that you said died in Trondheim. You also said the one son died early and maybe the other one moved to another farm? I would like to know more about that also as I do want to find everyone eventually. I am just so happy to hear from you again.Are there any pictures in that farm book,even of the farm itself? I have been reading today about the people who came from the cotter's farms in Norway to America (mostly about how they started the Sons of Norway), very interesting. I love learning more about Norway. Since finding out more about Sweden and Norway, I have a new interest in everything concerning those countries. How I wish I had shown an interest while Mother was still alive as she was so proud of her heritage! Deborah

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Gjest Deborah Moseng

Nancy, I am sorry that I didn't follow up on your questions about that website. The Jonas Olsen Øver-Solem is who I am following on it (going backwards on that site) as he didn't include Jonas second wife who was my ancestor. He was married to two Kari's and the second wife was my relation. They (Jonas and the second Kari) had two children and one was Kari Jonasdatter and that was my Grandmother's mother. Kari (Grandmother's mother) and her husband Nils had a small cotter's farm on the Sesseng farm in Selbu. I didn't follow your relatives on that list as I haven't looked at it for a while. I did put the names that I could use right away on my family tree and need to 'study' it more to see how far I want to go with it--I am getting mixed up with all the same names etc. Anyway, let me know how we are 'related distantly' if we even are. It seems the person who did the family tree on that site was following the other Kari. Any more news about any of my family is welcome but someone from here has really been helping me sort out my family and it has very much been appreciated. Deb

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Gjest Nancy (Fostervold) Halvorson

Deb, I thought maybe you would find something on that site. I know some of my people are also on it. There are so many people in this family that it is very hard to keep it all straight. I've been working on other families right now. I will be getting back to the Selbu people soon I hope. I agree with you that alot of the names are somewhat the same, I've messed it up a few times already!! There are alot of people in Minnesota that are related to the people on that site. Nancy

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Gjest Deb Moseng

Hi again, I have also been working on some other lines and have sort of gotten off that site for a short time. It took lots of concentration but it was quite interesting. I have been getting some other help with the Selbu people so have sort of been working on that more right now when I am getting the help. I wish he had followed the other Kari so I could see what he had down but I am thankful he has that on the Interenet and that Jan found it. I am so thanksful for all the help I have gotten as I just started working on genealogy this fall and with very few facts to start with. It is so much fun watching one little fact or clue grow in to lots of other possibilities. Anyway, why don't you email me privately when you get going on it again so I don't keep taking so much space on here. I would love to hear what you have found as far as relatives from that list that are related to you although I guess that is a LONG ways back and not much at that considering I can only follow Jonas backwards on there. Deb

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