[#46383] Per A. Nermo rømte på ski fra Trysil til Sverige ca.1860-70, em. til USA ca.1893

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(249:) Anne Elise, in which direction (himmelretning) is the photo of Nermo taken ?

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Fantastic! You guys bring tears to my eyes!Arnie P. Nermo

[Gjest A. E. Ferner]

The photo is taken from west (from the road Vestsidevegen). And the house is still in use; the young owner with family. I talked to them today, and they told me that the oldest part of the house is to the right.Anne Elise

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(249:) As cosy as it looks today, Nermo was probably a spartan quarter in 1855 when Per A. Nermo's mothers's husband (married 1851) Mathis Persen Sandbæklien allegedly buildt it.However, if it's true, what's written in the sentence from Ljusdals Häradsrätt (1889) (se #208 above), that Per A. Nermo (born 1843) lived with his father until he was twenty years old (1863), and then went to Sweden, we are led to assume that Per A. Nermo did not live at Nermo at all, although he later on took as a last name the name of the residence of his mother and her husband. (He may of course have stayed at Nermo in periods until his leave for Sweden was recorded in 1866).About the place of living for Per's father Arne Olsen Gropa (from Elverum) we seem to know very little, apart from what's written in the military rolls of Østerdalske kompani, that his (illegitimate) son Per was born (1843) in Eltedalen, Trysil (#185 above). When giving birth to Per, his mother Olea Olsdatter Tangen (21) is supposed to have lived with her parents at Sønsthagen, Trysil.How far from each other are Sønstehaugen and Eltedalen in Trysil ? Can Olea have been employed in Eltedalen at the time ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Referring to the map in #56 (above), the photo in #249 would be taken from the first letter 'e' in 'Vestsidevegen' almost exactly east of the red ball of the pin marker, and the house pictured is the one directly in this line, the one with a small annex added to one end (on the map drawn at an odd angle).The forrested hills in the background thus would be on the other (east) bank of the river Trysilelva, east of the Østmo farm (see maps #51/52). This is the narrowest part of the river in this area, and probably the exact place where Per's stepfather Mathis Persen Sandbæklien (1786-1874) just was about to be ferried over (home to Nermo) when he reluctantly had his picture taken (see #69 above) at 'Skredders' (close to Østmo ?) in appr. 1865-1870 (?).

[Gjest Bjørn Olav Åsvold]

(254): When Per Nermo told Ljusdals Häradsrätt (1889) that he lived with his father until he was twenty years old, isn't it likely that he meant his stepfather Mathis? The church book for Trysil in 1852 (utflyttingen til Nordlandene) tells us that Per at that time was part of the family of Olea and Mathis, and he wouldn't have been called Per Arnesen Nermo in the church book in 1866 (utflyttingen til Sverige) unless he had lived at Nermo.Sønsthagen (in the center of Trysil) and Eltdalen (in the northernmost part of Trysil) are quite far apart, I guess approx. 25 to 30 km.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

In retrospect, and with all available information taken into concideration, I tend to agree completely with Bjørn Olav Åsvold (#256).Anybody having a hint of an idea what was the business of Arne Olsen Gropa/Gropen (from Elverum) and Olea Olsdatter Tangen (1824-1911) (from Sønsthagen, Trysil) in Eltdalen (30 kms farther north than Sønsthagen) in 1842/1843, apart from what led to the birth of Per Arnesen (Nermo) (23 Jun 1843-ca.1929) ?

[Gjest Chris Bingefors]

The court protocol is written by the clerk and tells the statements with some editing but the exact sentence on Per As background is:....brättade att han var född 23 juni 1843 i Trysil, samt son till arbetaren Arne Olsson derstädes och ogifta Ullia Olasdotter, att han, som vistats hos fadern till sitt 20 år och herunder åtnjutit någon skolundervisning, vid 16 års ålder blifvit första gången delaktig af HH Nattvard i Trysilds kyrka.....It sounds like he lived with his father, but that may well have been misunderstood - he probably had a Norwegian-Swedish mixed language, notice how they have spelled his mother´s name, a Swedish trascription of the Norwegian pronounciation. He also very quickly runs through the part about his youth (not wanting to admit to any other offences?)

[Gjest A. E. Ferner]

Antagelig hadde Olea tjeneste i Eltedalen da hun fikk Per; ihvertfall hadde hun bekjentskaper derfra - tre av fadderne til Per var fra Eltedalen. Denne Arne Olsen Gropen har jeg lett og lett etter men ikke funnet noen videre spor etter. Fra 1796 til 1828 er det født 8 stk. Arne i Elverum, men ingen av dem med tilknytning til Gropen. Så antagelig har en av dem hatt bosted en stund på Gropen før han kom til Trysil og besvangret Olea. Ingenting tyder på at Per bodde sammen med ham, da Per ble konfirmert i 1861 nevnes det at han var født på Sandbæklien, det var jo der Mathis slo seg ned når han kom til Trysil. Per er jo også med mor og stefar da de flytter nordover i 1852. Så jeg tror barnefaderen Arne er ute av bildet for lenge siden!Anne Elise

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Det bor i 1865 (1) en selveiende jordbruker Arne Ols. (f. ca. 1812 i Elverum) på Kjæljebakken i Bjølset og Kværnmon skoledistrikt, Elverum (gift og med en datter på 24 år), samt (2) en husmann med jord og murer Arne Ols. (f. ca. 1810 i Elverum) på Storfrenningseie i Brunstad skoledistrikt, Romedal (gift, med barn på 14, 10, 7 og 4 år).Per Arnesen var ca. 22 år ved folketellingen i 1865. I rullene for Østerdalske kompani, der Per er oppført, er hans far Arne Olsen Gropa f. i (Gropa ?) Elverum, notert som ungkar, hvilket skulle 'frikjenne' nr. 1 (han på Kjæljebakken) av de to ovennevnte. Men nr. 2 kan jo har gjort seg en tur (som arbeider og ungkar) til Nord-Trysil høsten 1842, omlag 8 år før han ser ut til å ha giftet seg med 18-åringen (ca.) fra Romedal, Nikoline Larsdatter (f. ca. 1832) (åtte år yngre enn Olea).Men dette er jo bare spekulasjoner. Per Arnsen f. 1843 finner jeg ikke spor av i 1865. Han farer vel rundt i skogene i Sverige, uten papirer ....1: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f60427&gardpostnr=114&personpostnr=604&merk=604#ovre>Lenke2:

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(72:) Den Ole (Mattisen Flisberget) (g. m. Karen Kristoffersdatter Rønningen fra Nord-Odal, sønn: Mattis 1857-1868) som jeg trodde kanskje kunne være sønn av Mathis Persen Sandbæklien (1786-1874) (fra ca.1855 bosatt på Nermo, Trysil) og hans første kone Valborg Bergersdatter (g. 1813 og skilt 1846) viser seg istedet å være sønn av Mathis Sandbæklien's fetter Mattis Olsson Flisberget (1796-1867) og kona Else Mattisdotter, hvis sønn Ole (nevnt over) i 1858 flyttet til Slåstad i Sør-Odal, mens dennes brødre Mattis og Gunder i 1867 utvandret til Montana, USA.Mathis og Valborg ble alstå skilt i 1846, og samme år flytter Mathis til Trysil, der han får barna Marthe 1846 og Mathis 1850 (begge antakelig født i Sandbekklia, Trysil) med Olea Olsdatter Tangen (mor til Per Arnesen Nermo f.1843) før han (endelig) gifter med henne 21 sep 1851 (ikke 1846) og deretter får Olea 1853 (f. på Øyen i Elvdalen, på grensen til Engerdal) , Oline 1856 og Sofie 1861 (de to siste ble født på Nermo, ble gift med hver sin sønn av Gjermund Nesbakken og var medlemmer av Trysil Frimenighet).Med Valborg fikk Mathis barna Severin 1814, Per 1817, Olia 1821 og Marte 1825 (altså Olea/Olia og Marte/Marthe i begge ekteskapene !).(Kilder: Trond Øivindsson Lunde og Anne Elise Ferner)

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Per Arneson Nermo and of his two children. It is John (b.1884) and Martha (or Katarina). We are not sure. The boy looks to be about 5-8 years old, So I place the family portrait at , circa :1889 to 1891. Does anybody know of this technique of portrait? It looks to be a poor man's way to do a family photo.: {compiments of Darlene Belanger, daughter of Ewin Arne Nermo (son of Pete)}

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Pete Pedersen Nermo (first son of Per A. Nermo) born 1871, in Borgsjo; with Agnes his third wife. She was born in Oslo and moved to Canada in 1907. I believe the photo is circa 1937. That would make Pete 66 and Agnes 38, if my calculations are correct. He does not remind me of Louis's side of the family, except that his eyes are similar to my fathers. This is the first photo that I have ever seem of Pete. By all accounts he was a hard working entrepreneurial fellow, a real character. Funny and kind to children.Re:(#262) Per A. Nermo reminds me of my older brother Anthon (b. 1948); especially in the hair and hairline.All the best!Arnie P Nermo

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Did you insert another picture than intended ? This seems to be a picture of a (married) couple with one child (5-8 years old) (Jonas/John, born 1884?).Per A. Nermo is assumed to have been in jail at Gävle for the better part of the year 1890. His daughter Katarina died in 1889, 14 years old (she's not on the picture). Per's daughter Martha was born in 1869. The lady on the picture seems older, but of course in could be Martha, looking older.

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Re: (#262) & (#264)No Per, I certainly did insert the picture that I intended!I just received both pictures from Darlene Belanger (Nermo) who lives in Seattle. She inherited it from her mother and father. It originally belonged to her grandfather, Pete Nermo (#263). According to her (and her parents, now deceased) the portrait is of Pete A. Nermo and his son John (b.1884). They thought the lady in the picture was ''perhaps'' Per A.'s daughter, Martha (Marta) (b.1869) It is hard to estimate their ages because it is an artist's rendition, not a photograph. I based my calculations according to the age of the boy. He looks to be five to eight years old. This would place the picture from about the summer of 1889 to the summer of 1891(not including the time Per spent in jail, of course). I have a very good commercial scan of the original. It's 30cm. by 40cm. I have cropped it to fit to my scanner. The lady/girl in the original looks younger in my copy, than the image that is on the Data-Archive, which seems to have a slight overall distortion. Nevertheless, I doubt very much that it is Kajsa Lisa. It is probably Martha, she would be about 20 years old at this time.Happy hunting,Arnie P. Nermo

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Hello A. E. Ferner, Heradsbygd, 3.3.2007 20:36 (#249) Do you have the address of the house that Per A. Nermo used to live at in Trysil. I would like to send the owners a letter. (discrete and in good taste, of course) Tell them about the Data Archive! (#46383)Arnie P. Nermo.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

OK. It was probably taken in 1891 or later, because in the summer of 1889 or earlier Katarina must be assumed to have been included in such a family picture. (His wife died in February 1889, his son Arne shortly before that and Katarina in September. Hardly a time to take family pictures).

[Gjest Chris Bingefors]

Here is page 1 of the trial, I hope you can read it - the original language is very intricate and heavy:I have modernized this somewhat, It is old official Swedish with complicated, passive tense, very long words and long sentences, sometimes one sentence is several pages.Case # 189Per Andersson Nermo and others TheftIn the letters which on the 3, 8, and 15 November this month have reached the court, the chief of police in the County had demanded a trial against the individuals in custody, for breaking and entering, worker, Norwegian Per Andersson Nermo in Hedsjö, worker Hans Johan Lindgren in Korpåsen and shop keeper Johan Jönsson in Nedansjö (?) , Ramsjö parish. The trial, which had been set at 1 pm this day started now. Present were above mentioned Pihlman who in his role as prosecutor (note: Chief of Police and prosecutor were one and the same man), and the complainant, shop keeper Per Broström in Ramsjö, in addition also those in custody who were taken to the court by prison officer E Waltner.After Per Andersson Nermo was taken into the court room the complainant presented the circumstances during when the theft was performed. When the complainant arrived at Hedsjö village the 11th last October, where he for some time had had a subsidiary to his shop in a smaller building, he had found the wooden slants which were nailed on the windows broken and almost the whole stock of “short goods” (underwear etc) gone. He immediately told the prosecutor about what had happened, upon which investigations were made. Then it was found that Per Andersson Nermo who had claimed he was, during the time the alleged theft was done from the 5th of October, when the complainant last had visited the shop, to the 11th the same month, staying in Östavall in Medelpad….(next installment!)Prison officer Waltner from Gävle was born in 1833, married with 7 children in 1890. This is prosecutor and chief of police Pihlman:Post 4242619Pihlman, Johan Axel Länsmanf. 1856 i Vendel (Uppsala län, Uppland)Gift man, far i familjenSund. Ramsjö (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland)Födelseort i källan: Wendel, Upsala l

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Martha was married in Jun 1888 and in 1891 she had already two children, Oskar Hilding and Olof Gunnar Halfdan.

[Gjest Vanja Persson]

About the portrait in 262: Photoshop wasn’t invented but the technique was used! I’ve seen many designed photomontage from the early 1900. Some pretty good, but not all of them. It was very common to make portraits from other pictures. People were even put in nice clothes and hats (I have a feeling that it could be so with this portrait too). It was a particular business concept to offer those portraits of people who had passed away. If the man is Per A. Nermo, I think the woman depicts his wife and the portrait can very well has been made after her death.

[Gjest A. E. Ferner]

I Kirkebok for Trysil MINI 4 kort 1/8 s. 22 finner vi Per Arnesen (født 23.06.1843)med foreldrene Pig. Olia Olsdtr. Sønsthagen og Ungk. Arne Olsen Gropa af Elverum Prestegield. Uægte født. ( Her er ikke Eltedalen nevnt som fødested) Per er døpt 15.07.1843 i Trysil og har fadderne: 'Kari Knudsdtr. Kjølberget, Johanne Johnsdtr. Lilleholm, Gjermund Halvorsen ibid, Christopher Persen Eltedalen, Joh. Jonsen Kjølberget.Tilhørende Rode 96 Eltedalen. Hjemmedåb anf. i Osen kirkebog'.Anne Elise

[Gjest A. E. Ferner]

Arnie!(266)Contact me at my e-mail adress: aelise-f(at)online.no and I'll send you their adress. And I have already told them about the Data Archive, even if they are not any Nermo.Anne Elise

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Re:(#272)Thank you Anne Elise,I will contact you shortly.Arnie

[Gjest Bjørn Olav Åsvold]

Anne Elise (271): Jeg legger merke til at hjemmedåpen er anført i Osen kirkebok (Jeg trodde ikke at eltdølene brukte kirka i Osen?), og at to av fadderne bor på Lilleholm. Jeg spekulerer: I stamrullen som er nevnt flere ganger tidligere i debatten, finnes en Arne, f. 14.9. 1836 på Lilleholm og sønn av ungkar Arne Olsen - kan det være samme Arne Olsen?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(263:) Agnes 'Nelson' (1898-1957, 3rd wife of (14 when she married !) Pete (Per) Persson Nermo (1871-1952/1956) from Borgsjö, Medelpad, Sverige, eldest son of Per Arneson Nermo from Trysil) was surely a lovely girl.If I'm not mistaking, she emigrated from Kristiania (Oslo, Norway) on the ship 'Oslo' on Aug 3rd 1907, bound for Minnesota (and later on, Canada), travelling with her parents, Anders Nilsen Kylstad (born 15 Feb 1849) in Furnes, Vang, Hedmark, and his wife Helen Olsdatter (born 2 Sep 1856) from Veldre, Ringsaker, Hedmark (probably the daughter of spinner Marthe Gundersdatter (born appr. 1826 in Ringsaker), who lived on Holmen, Veldre, in 1865 with children Helen (10) and Mathias (5), her husband (Ole) being at the time in Nordland).In 1900, Helene and Anders are married (since, appr. 1880 ?), and living as tenants at 'Gudsaas' Østre, Furnes, Vang, Hedmark, where Anders works as a farm hand and in the woods. In 1865 it seems to me that it is Anders who is found as 17 year old farm hand at Kylstad Vestre, Furnæs, Vang, Hedmark, a farm from where he (if this is correct) has taken his last name Kylstad (1907). I've not found his parents so far. Anybody ?When emigrating from Kristiania (Oslo) in 1907 the couple's place of living is given as Furnæs (''Furn's''/Furnes). Thus, Agnes 'Nelson' (Nilsen) Kylstad is from Furnes, Vang, Hedmark, not Oslo (Kristiania in 1907).In 1912, after having stayed in Canada for five years, (according to Arnie), she was 'pushed' (as a 14 year old) by her mother (Helen Olsdatter) (who at the time lived in Sascatchewan) as a 3rd wife to Pete, who had just come back empty handed (except for his elder sister Martha and her family) from a trip to Sweden to muster a new wife (nobody would have him, an spite of his wavy hear, hypnotic eyes (#263) and good looking).With Agnes, Pete had the children Alfred, Oscar, Carl, Anna, Hilma, Nora, Amy. (Hilma married Iner Löfgren, and they had Christine Löfgren, who married Alvarez, living in the State of Indiana, US, with 3 children and 7 grand children (in 2002)).