[#69197] Peter Olson Quatum/Kvatum and family - from Biri, Oppland area to Wisconsin

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Scott,you refer to Whatcom County in Wash. Just across the border from us.But you say Peder and Siri only stayed a short time before they went to Medicine Hat in Alberta.Well that area had a lot of Norwegian farmers and possibly Peder knew someone there? I checked the Land Grants but never found a familiar Peder Olsen.They seem to change names for some reason?As for the confusion in the ancestry? With those names its not hard to get confused. I might be able to add some more confusion!! I found Berte Jonsdr.married Ole Pedersen in Biri 24 April 1760.So possibly Peders father is Ole Pedersen and not Ole Olsen? Maybe Geir can check on that?To Geir.I missed the Siri P. from Marking ( Markeng ) in Oslo.I had checked all the Siri/Sigris in the lists.From Birid / Biri.To check the passenger lists in Canada you would need the name of the ship.Then go through the manifests manually.And most of the emigrants went to Liverpool and Glasgow and went on the larger ships.Ron

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Re (48): It is difficult to find out about the emigrants social and financial status without digging more. I don't think Peder was broke when he left, he kept the two farms for 17 years after he emigrated - so either he or his relatives had money. But, these farms were relatively small so I assume that they were living a hard life - the countryside was overpopulated - 3 % of the population emigrated every year from Biri in the period 1880-85, and the population decreased by around 1-2% every year due to emigration. The emigration was at it's maximum in the period 1782 /-5 years. I am sure they had people in the US that informed them about the situation there, and they decided to try the life there. The records from the bankruptcy court may give some info.Re. (14)/(50). Ole Olsen was 31 years in 1801 Lenke , so he could not be the father of Peder Olsen who bought his farm in 1802. Peder Olsen is a very common name, so you can't base family relations on the names only - there is a need for an explicit source. There may be additional info in the document from 1802 linked to in (14), buy I am not able to read it all.Another indirect method is to find the christening of all of Peder's children in Vardal and Ringsaker. Then go through the Faddere (godparents) and see if they fit with any known siblings of Ole Olsen.There are people that has worked more with these farms than me. I suggest you post a query on slektshistorielaget.noAnne Andersdtr. was Ole Olsen's wife, cf. 1801 census.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Geir, I was kidding about the 'poor, broke bastard' thing. :)As far as the Ole Olsens, I just got the impression that Peder was related to at least one, but possibly both from your post. There's the Ole on the Noss farm in 1801 who's possibly related, then there's the Ole he bought Kvatum from in 1802. I know Olsen as a surname is as common as Ole is as a first name, but I assumed there had to be some kind of connection in order for Peder to know the farm was for sale, and then sell it to Peder of all people.Ron - I'm guessing that they were in Washington from about 1905-1910. In the 1910 census, they are listed as Peter and Siri (Sarah?) Peterson. But that may have been a mistake by the information giver or taker. I'm not sure what last name they were using at the time, but in the 1911 census in Canada, they used Olson.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Yes, I understood that you were kidding - we stole their money and sent them to the US. But you joke just triggered some thinking....Disregard the Ole Olsen 46 years on Nøss. I have not checked for any possible relation with our persons, but most likely no relation unless you go back 2-3 generations or more.There is very often a family relation between buyer and seller - there were and are even a 1000 or so years old law in Norway (Odelsloven) that makes it more difficult for others than the near family to buy a farm. But since the law does not make it impossible for others to buy, one can not base family relations 100% on that. But, your thinking is the basis for guessing that Ole Olsen and Peder Olsen could be brothers.Odelsloven says today, among other things, that if your parents or grandparents owned the farm longer than a defined period, you SHALL be preferred as a buyer at a special discounted price - rather than people who are not that closely related to previous owners. The rules are complicated, and have changed over the years. But, even if Odelsloven gives you a right, you may not have sufficient money.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Geir, I'm starting to look more closely at the pages you sent me. Some, I see no connection as of yet, but one that I'm working on now involves Peder Johnsen Amundrud (b. 1804). I need a translation on his grandfathers info:Sersjant Borre Jonsen Stokke 1738-1806, kjopte 1/3 av Amundrud 1770 av Anders Olsen Amundrud, g. 2/11 1768 m Marte Larsdtr. Markeng 1742-1814.Now, this is just a stab at it without looking it up, but does it mean that Borre Jonsen bought 1/3 of Amundrud off of Anders Olsen? Is Sersjant Borre his first name of does Sersjant mean something else?Thanks

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

I see now that I should have marked the persons. I will go through the pages and send you a list of page numbers and persons.Your translation is promissing :-)Sergeant Børre (Børre=first name) Jonsen Stokke bought 1/3 of Amundrud 1770 from Anders Olsen Amundrud, [børre] married 1768 to Marte Larsdtr. MarkengI have skipped some numbers.We should probably handle translations of the pages via e-mail since no one else understands the context.I have an emerging theory on the Peder Olsen and Ole Olsen relation and their ancestry, the connection may be via Nøss after all. More later.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Geir, thanks. Yeah, I understood the numbers, but I just typed out the whole thing.No need to mark the persons... about 5 minutes after I posted, I figured it out. I really haven't looked at them much until I needed them now. There's only 1 or 2 spots now that confuse me involving multiple names at the top of the Svartasen farm (where we discussed the Finnlander), and one other spot where a guy has two wives and it's hard to distinguish which children belong to who.Sergeant, as in an army Sergeant?

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Army Segeant - yes.I have sent you a translation of the top of the Svartåsen page by email.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

OK! I found Karen emigrating with her brother Ingvald age 11 Aug.1885 to Clayton ? Using name Pedersen from BiridLenke

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Congratulations!

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Thanks Geir. If you look at the immigration records of Siri and Karen, it's Hudson and Clayton respectively. Then if you look those cities up under WI on google maps, it's relatively the same area. They were tagged in Lincoln, Polk, WI in a census which is the same area. Peder used New York I believe, which was probably just his first stop. The boys seemed to have gone the Quebec route... interesting. Nice work!

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

I was wrong about Siri's record, hers says Quebec too, but one did say Hudson...Geir, you mentioned something about a theory on Ole Olsen selling the farm to Peder Olsen...?

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

I think I have solved the question re. Were Peder Olsen and Ole Olsen at Kvatum brothers? The answer is yes.1801 census Nøss (several Nøss farms) in Snertingdal in Biri Lenke1725 * Beret Johansdtr Kone 69 Enke efter første ægteskab Huuskone med jord og møller K1726 Johane Johanesdtr Hendes tieneste pige og broderdatter 23 Ugift K1727 Peder Olsen Mand konens søn 36 Begge i første ægteskab Inderste M1728 Marte Christophersdtr Hans kone 21 Begge i første ægteskab K1729 Ole Pedersen Deres børn 3 M1730 Mari Pedersdtr Deres børn 1---- Note that Beret Johansdtr 69 was Peder Olsen's mother. (Johanne Johannesdtr 23 is her servant and doughter of Beret's brother, so we know Beret had a brother Johannes/Johan (most likely Johannesen unless a halvebrother).)From the records of Christenings in Biri: Ole Torsen at Nøsseie and Berte Johansdatter had the following children- Tor christened 2 Mar 1766 (died 5 weeks old)- Peder 23 Aug 1767- Ole 8 Apr 1770- Johannes 21 Feb 1773 (died 5 weeks 4 days old)No birth dates given. Before that Ole and Berte also had two children when living at Brenner in Snertingdal:- Johannes christened 27 Dec 1758 (died at Bratlien 1762)- Anne 24 Mar 1761 (died 1762 at Bratlien, burried same day as Johannes 5 sep 1762)and when parents were living at Bratlien in Snertingdal- Anne 24 Jun 1763Marriage records Ringsaker: 29 Des 1797: Ole Olsen Nøsseie from Biri and 'Pige' Anne Anderdtr. Hvattum Best men: Ole Haakensen Markeng and Peder Olsen NøssMarried in Vardal 28 Sep 1798 Peder Olsen Wolden of Snertindalen and Marte Christophersdatter Seval Best men: Ole Nøss and Ole QuattumOle Thorsen (and Berte Johansdtr.) listed as 'Husmand' at the Nedre Nøss farm in a tax list 1767.According to the bygdebok a cottar's farm (husmannsplass) Quernvolden is mentioned in 1803 at Nedre Nøss. --- So Wolden=Quernvolden=Nøsseie (or in modern writing Kvernvolden) -- this is the cottar's farm where Peder Olsen was born --- and as can be seen from the above also his brother Ole Olsen.Ole Torsen and Berte Johannesdtr married 1 Apr 1755 in Snertingdal in Biri parish best men: Halvor Hov and Johannes Flatlien (no more info)Most likely the probate after Ole Olsen Kvatum in 1805 states that Ole and Peder were brothers - but needs checking. I found a summary transcribed by Terje Tandsether, but it is not 100% clear on the brother relation.------That is as far as I can get at the moment - Ole Torsen most likely born before the preserved church records for Biri starts 1730. He may have some relation to Hov.Re. Berte, there is a good candidate born 1733 at Hoffseie, father Johannes Hoffseie (Hof in Snertingdal not Biri). Note that we have already in 1801 Nøss found that Berte had a brother Johannes. Johannes Flatlien, the best man, was most likely a Johannesen and could be the brother.The niece Johanne Johanesdtr. b. abt. 1778 is also a clue.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

The fact that Peder was Berte's son is in 1801 stated as 'Mand konens søn'. This is unusual wording. 'Konen' means 'grown up/old woman' in this context, 'søn' I assume you understand, 'Mand' means 'man' - she was a woman in a mans role (a 'man woman' - unusual wording) - i.e. she was the head of the house - and Peder was her son.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Good sleuthing Geir!! I thought Bertes name could be Jonsdr ( Joensdr,Johansdr ) and when I found the marriage to Ole Pedersen in 1760 it fit the family history.Reading those 1700 records in Biri its hard to see where the people came from.hahaha!As for Karen and Ingvald I got lucky again.I was looking at the Ingvalds in Oslo lists and just happened to see Karen M. Pedersen and Ingvald from Birid.The ages fit.To Scott: do you know if Ole K went to Canada or any of the other children? Peder would be about 75 in 1911 and quite old to settle in Medicine Hat area.I had done some research a few months ago and found some Norwegians had gone from Minn.and got land grants from the Canadian Govt. 1908-12.I believe Peder either had family there or a relative? Ron

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

I had forgotten about an important SECONDARY source for families in Snertingdal, it goes under the name 'Bjørn Alund's slektslister', a collection in 4 volumes covering families in Snertingdal approximately 1730-approx 1950. The first volume 1730-1801 is in a database here: LenkeSearch for Ole Torsen Grøterud - 2 entries. You will find a lot of the info in my posting (63).It shows a couple of thing that I have missed in the parish records:Ole Torsen most likely born at Grøterud in Snertingdal, christened 27 Dec 1731, by parents Tor Arnesen abt. 1702-burr. 6 Jan 1734 and Kari Pedersdtr. Nøsseie abt. 1706-burr. 17 Apr 1767.Also, Ole Torsen and Berte Johansdtr had a daugther Else born at Hoffseie in Snertingdal chr. 14 Dec 1755. Married 6 Oct 1776 to Henrik Jensen Nedre Nøss chr. 29 Jul 1753.I assume that some of the relations here are based on the fact that the name Tor is not so frequently used.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Ron - It does seem odd, but apparently that's where they went at that age. I have added the two articles to Siri Pedersdatter on my ancesty.com tree. If you are interested, give me your email and I'll invite you to see the tree so you can read the articles. It also gives a rundown of where the children live and give hints to who they married (at least the women)... but I haven't found them all in the Canadian census yet. There are close matches, but nothing that I can add for sure.Geir, impressive... I figuered Ole Olsen and Peder had to be related somehow... It's going to take me some time to get through all that! :)

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Scott,you say Sina died in 1965 in Canada? Any idea of where? Possibly Peder & Siri went to join her in 1910 from Karens in Whatcom Co.?My e-mail is bergiverson at shaw.ca. Contact me any time.Ron

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

You're right, Peder and Siri moved out by Sena in 1910. I believe (and according to those articles) that Siri ended up living with Sena (Mrs T.E. Prouty) after Peter died. The articles are from 1934 and 1937, I'll send you an invite through ancestry.com right now. I don't know where the tree will take you to first (possibly me as the 'home person'), but the Petersons start at Idella Peterson, my grandmother.Pretty much everything I know, found, and almost everything provided here is on there... though, there's still details to be ironed out.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Scott,that makes a little more sense.Peder & Siri lived with Sena and went with her and her husband to Comrey,Alta. Another thought just entered my head.Geir was wondering who looked after the taxes etc.on Tofsrud and Onsrud farms after Peder went to the US? He had a brother Johan Olsen who lived at Kvatum.Possibly Peder sent money to Johan to pay the taxes but either Johan died or let the taxes lapse?Do we know anything about Peders siblings? Johan b.1834,Mathea b.1839 and Olave b.1849?Ron

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

As of right now... nothing except they existed. I haven't had a chance to search for them yet... still working on other pieces of the tree.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

I believe I found Peders brother Johan that agrees with my theory that possibly Johan was paying the taxes on Peders property and had died letting them lapse?Johan Olsen f.1835 married Antonette Evensdr 23 June 1871 in Vardal.Antonette f.1849 in Øveraasen,Vardal.Parents Even Eilertsen and Marte Olsdr in 1865. Johan Olsen d.25 June 1891 in Dullerud by Markeng.Here is enke Antonette and family in 1900. RonLenke

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

I have asked Terje Tandsether, which is considered to be THE expert on genealogy in Biri and Snertingdal, to have a look at some of these lines. Here is the answer.The probate after Ole Olsen Hvattum 11 June 1805 is not microfilmed so he can’t check it in detail at the moment, but he agrees that what has been transcribed from the probate supports the assumption that Ole Olsen and Peder Olsen were brothers.Their father Ole Torsen must be the one christened 27 Dec 1731 when living at Grøterud. His oldest daughter is called Else, a rare name that is used by other persons at Grøterud, e.g.. Ole had a sister Else 1730-1731. Ole was the son of Tor Arnesen Grøterud b. abt. 1702 burr. 6 Jun 1734 married 19 Feb. 1730 to Kari Pedersdtr. Nedre Nøsseie b. abt. 1707 d. 16 Apr 1767. Tor was the son of Arne Syversen Grøterud b. abt. 1664 bur. 6 Jan 1732 and Else Mauritsdtr. b. abt. 1669 bur. 24 Jun 1739. Arne was son of Syver Arnesen Skjønsby (in Redalen, one of the two northern most farms in Redalen) b. abt. 1624.Kari Pedersdtr.’s father was Peder Torsen b. abt. 1675 bur. 7 Jun 1740 – he was a “husmann” at Nedre Nøss 1734-1740 (i.e. at Nedre Nøsseie).Terje is not sure about the ancestry of Berte Johansdtr. - Ole Torsens wife. She MAY have died as an “inderst” at Onsrud 8 Nov. 1823, said to be 103 years - but most likely she was younger, maybe as much as 10-15 years younger, so she may have been born 1733. One CANDIDATE for her father is Johannes Johannesen b. abt 1697 who was living at Hovsbakken (=Hovseie in Snertingdal) in 1748 and buried 24 Jun 1757 (60 years). Wife unknown. Johannes was the son of Johannes Håversen Gårder (in Østsinni, in Land parish, west of Biri) b. abt. 1644 probate 14 Dec 1718 and his second wife Birgitte (or Berte) Kjellsdtr. Hage from Vardal, probate 6 Dec 1697.------Regarding what Ron found in (72): Johan is one possibility for “caretaker” of Peders Olsen’s farms, but he dies in 1891 – eight years before the farms were sold, so most likely there has also been other caretakers.