[#69197] Peter Olson Quatum/Kvatum and family - from Biri, Oppland area to Wisconsin

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Sott,I am sure Ole Kristian and brother Peder were the sons of Peder Olsen.But I really am puzzled I could find nothing showing Siri and the rest of the family emigrating No mention at all in the exit list for Biri parish.Or in the passenger lists.Geir its possible Peder Olsen went bankrupt because he did not pay his taxes on the farms and was in the US?Ron

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

I have found the document where the bankruptcy court sells the farms in 1899 Lenke but there is no mention of the reason for bankruptcy. (Peder is here called Peder Olsen Tofsrud.)But, when Peder bought the farms in 1875 he had to borrow money, so that is most likely also part of the reason. The fact that he was in the US is certainly also a reason and there may have been taxes.What surprise me is that it took 17 years. Someone must have acted on Peder's behalf during this time.I am sure there are other documents in the archives that details the bankruptcy - not so easily accessable.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Scott,Kvatum and Onsrud are still there.Now in Gjøvik You can use Gule Slider http://www.gulesider.no/kart/ Under Finn sted eller adresse type the farm name then click Søk ( seek )Kvatum,Gjøvik you want is # 2 Bruk ( gard )click on it Onsrud,Gjøvik is #4 (bruk ( gard ) etc. Use the slider and you get a better idea of where those farms are.Ron

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Note that Tofsrud is spelled Tovsrud on the map. You can also have a look at Kart (=Map) on www.slektshistorielaget.no - it will give you an understanding of the parishes.

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Hei Geir! I see Joakim Gulbrandsen and his family are living on Onsrud in 1900.Did Joakim buy the farm for 5400kr. in 1899?Would you have any idea how Sigri / Siri Pedersdr.could emigrate from Biri to the US and is not found in the Passenger Lists? This is very strange.The only children I found emigrating were Ole Kristian and Peder in 1882. Also when Peder Olsen left Biri 19 Jan.1882 there was another person with him b.?1849 but I can not read what it says? Or is that his confirmation date? Ron

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Geir, any idea who the Kristiansens living with (or by) them in the 1875 census are?

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Ron, that's an interesting website... I wonder if ground-level pictures exist somewhere...

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

Sometimes there are pictures of farms posted by people.Try Google Search? There was no census for Biri in 1875 posted as yet.1875 is still incomplete for South Norway.Do you have any idea when Peder & Siri went to Medicine Hat,Alta.? I looked in the Canadian records but found nothing to 1935.Ron

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Ron, I know there is a picture section involving farms here... but I have not found any of the farms involving Peder as of yet. One of the sections also has a dead link.Geir sent me the 1875 cesus she found elsewhere, but you're right, it is not on here as of yet.I have two articles involving Siri from the Lethbridge Herald. One states that they moved to WI in 1883, then to Washington, then to Medicine Hat, Alberta in 1910. I have found all US and Canadian census records involving them on ancestry.com. In 1900, they were in Polk County, WI listed as Peter Olson Quatum and Segrid. In 1910, they are in Washington living with thier daughter as Peter and 'Sarah' Peterson, and in 1911, they are in Canada as Peter and 'Carrie' Olson. I attribute the name differences to a misunderstanding between the census taker and whoever gave the information... heavy accents? But because of the articles I have, I'm sure it's them.One thing I have not found is thier death records in Canada. I have 'abt' dates, but ancestry doesn't seem to have many Alberta records. If you know any other way of researching that, I'd appreciate it!

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Ron, you are almost right, Joakim Gulbrandsen bought Nordre Onsrud (Gnr. 106 Bnr. 3) AND Søndre Tofsrud (Gnr. 197 Bnr. 2) in 1899 for 5400 kroner.Gnr=Gard nummer=Farm number (in this case within Biri parish) Bnr=Bruks nummer='Lot'/part number (within the farm identified by Gnr) This identification system is used from 1886, but Gnr may have changed later due to merging of parishes/municipalities - this is the case for all farms in this area - they have other Gnr-s today. And other numbers were used before 1886.Note, a 'Bruk' is often a farm in its own right, the important thing is just to assign two numbers that together identifies a peace of land.Often each Gnr has a 'Main name' - this word is my own invention - e.g. Kvatum, Tofsrud, Onsrud etc, but there are cases where to farms with two Gnr have the same Main name X - e.g. Northern X = Gnr a and Sothern X = Gnr b. Also, a 'Bruk''s name may be totally different from the name of the Gard. There are a lot of variations ....

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

The last paragraph should start with 'Often each Gard identified by a Gnr has a 'Main name' -'

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Ron, I just realized how close you are to Washington. In the 1910 U.S. Census, they were pegged in Whatcom, Washington which is frighteningly close to you. They were living with thier daughter Sena, who married T.E Prouty. I don't know what exactly you could find, but you just might have access to something over there that I don't...!?

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

There are two databases with emigrants from Oslo in Digitalarkivet. One called Emigranter fra Oslo and one Emigranter fra Christiania. These databases will be merged.Neither database is complete, and there is some overlap. While in one of these databases, press the button Dokumentasjon to see the details (I am not shure if this has been translated). There are a lot of persons missing in both transcribed databases. I assume we will see this corrected within a year or two.BUT, I think I have found Siri emigrated with children (not all) 24 Oct 1884:LenkeThe ages does not fit exactly, but I guess you could get a cheaper fare for children. Also, note that Siri came from one of the Markeng farms, so she most likely stayed with her parents/siblings - perhaps after Peder left in 1882.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Just for the records, Geir is a HE ...

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Ron, re (30) above, there was no person that moved from Biri together with Peder on 19 Jan 1882. The second line reads 'Søndre Markeng' and the date 30.9.49 is his confirmation.Original record: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=EMIOSLO&gardpostnr=59820&merk=59820#ovre>LenkeTranscript: LenkeConfirmation: person # 3

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Scott, re. (31):For the record: The 1875 census is here LenkeSearch for Bosted=Tofsrud to find Peder with family.Josefine is a servant living with Peder's family.The other two families are 'inderst', they rented a room on the Tofsrud farm. May be relatives/previous owner or no relation at all, I have not checked.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Geir, wow, I'm pretty sure that is them... all the children are correct except the lack of Peter and Ole, who, had apparently had already left. Until now, I didn't have a birthdate for John. I've found no matter what country you're dealing with, the birthdates are usually off, especially when it comes to traveling... You're probably right about cheaper rates.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Scott, re (32), here are some airial? photos from Gjøvik municipality from around 1957. Search for Tofsrud, Kvatum, Markeng etc.[url="http://www.gjovikmuseet.no/index.php?action=fotos&param=display>LenkeHere are a lot of photos from Snertingdal and parts of Redalen.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

If anyone has sent me e-mail during the last day ... it seems my mailbox is down.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Correction from previous message: ...lack of Peter, Ole, Karen, and Ingvald/Albert.... Carrie and Albert ended up in Canada, possibly travelled together?Geir, sorry about the 'she', type-o... I was in the middle of typing an email to my aunt and I quickly typed out that message to Ron at the same time and must've gotten the messages confused! Didn't mean to offend...

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Scott, no offence taken. It is often not easy to know. I had a male friend in Scotland named Sandy, later exchanged email with a Sandy (in WI?) which I learned after a lot of emails were a female.

[Gjest Geir Thorud]

Have tried to find Karen and Ingvald in the emigration records for Oslo/Christiania without luck. But for example in the period approx 1884-87 there are 20,000 records missing, so we may have to wait for the completion of the database - unless they can be found entering the US or Canada.Found Karen Mathea's confirmation in 1881 here LenkeSearch for Fornavn=Karen Bopel=KvatumIngvald most likely emigrated before he was confirmed.

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

So basically what you're saying Geir, is that all my ancesters who owned Kvatum ended up poor, broke bastards with probates after them...!? :)Can you translate Mand Konen son for me? The translation I found said 'Monday housewife's son'. I know the 'son' part and sort of get konen, but I was wondering what Mand Konen meant. I'm asking in relation to the 1801 census involving Peder Olsen and if it's pointing at his mother.... or grandmother?I did write you an email requesting one more favor involving the other 50% of my Norwegian heritage, but you can tell me to stick it if you want. :) I may just start another thread.

[Gjest Hanne Line Osberg Eide]

Mand Konen søn should have been written 'Mand, konens søn'. Mand because Peder Olsen is the man (husband, head) in the famliy. The part 'Konens søn' means that he is the son of (kone) Beret Johansdtr above.Beret Johansdtr is a widow (first marriage). She has land and mill. Johane Johanesdtr is her unmarried servant and brothers daughter.Peder Olsen and his family is living with Beret Johansdtr as 'inderst'. Inderst means that they rented room(s).

[Gjest Scott Lauren]

Thanks Hanne,That's what I assumed, but I don't want to throw her name in my tree without finding out from someone who knows!Geir re(14):You know, after reading this post a couple of times (since I keep coming back to it), I have to clarify something...You stated Peder Olsen (b. abt 1765) wasn't the son of Ole Olsen, but a brother possibly. Then you stated Peder bought the farm from Ole Olsen Hvatum in 1802. Now was this his father, the possible brother, or non-relation? Was Peders father still an 'Ole Olsen' and he also had a brother named Ole?Also, who is Anne Andersdatter then as you stated in a previous post? Just a mistranslation?