major Henrich Ramm og Anna Magdalena Roepstorffs døtre

[ahofelt]

@Benedicte Hauge Kulø, tusen takk for denne informasjonen. Jeg har også lett etter denne familien en stund, og dette er ny informasjon.

Dessverre er norsken min begrenset, så jeg fortsetter på engelsk (men svar gjerne på norsk!)

 

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Det spekuleres jo i hvem som er hennes foreldre, da hun er oppgitt mange steder med fødselsår 1715, men da ville hennes mor vært over 50 år! Nå har jeg funnet det jeg mest sannsynlig tror er vielsen i 1729, og det vil vel tilsi at hun er født god tid før 1715. Problemet mitt er at faren, Major Ramm, døde 1719 i Trondheim, og vielsen er i 1729 i Rendsburg, Holsten.

 

Indeed, for this reason, I have seen various internet trees proposing either an earlier birth (mostly 1706) or another set of parents (either Cpt. Johan Henrik Ramm x Anna Dorothea von Hadeln or his brother Christian Fredrik Ramm -- in both cases Major Henrik von Ramm would be the grandfather not the father). Another option could be that there are two different persons with the same name, one an aunt born in 1706 and the other a cousin born in 1715). In either case, I have not found any sources, except the familiar sources that you referenced.

 

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Men hva gjorde Elisabeth Dorothea i Rendsburg i 1729, og hvem var hun sammen med? Kan hun ha hatt en annen mor enn Anna Magdalena Røpstorff? Dette var før Johan Nathanael kom til Norge.

 

Jeg har heller ikke funnet Elisabeth Dorothea død, men hun var fadder  i Feda 19. februar 1746. Etter det har jeg ikke funnet henne i kirkeboken. Så hun må ha dødd mellom denne dato og 1752 da Johan giftet seg igjen.

 

Well, Rendsburg was of course a garrison town bustling with soldiers, and I imagine especially so in the years directly after the end of the Great Northern War in that area around 1720/1721. As you noted, both Major Henrik von Ramm and his wife Anna Magdalena von Røepstorff had died in 1719 and 1718, respectively, in Trondheim -- so they cannot explain Elisabeth Dorothea Ramm's presence all the way out in Rendsburg. Perhaps it was due to her great-aunts and great-uncles (the aunts and uncles of her mother Anna Magdalena von Røepstorff), the Løwenhielms / Schrøders / Ahledfeldts. Or perhaps it was her other grandmother, the wife of her grandfather Georg von Ramm, about whom we know nothing.

 

In any case, since it says explicitly in your screenshot that her father was "Major" Ramm (not "Captain" Ramm) so most likely that can only be Major Henrik Ramm, I think we can dismiss the theory that either Johan Henrik Ramm or Christian Fredrik Ramm were her father.

 

Sorry, this does not quite answer your question, and much it's merely speculation, but perhaps it helps...

 

A minor correction, by the way; the year of their marriage was 1728, not 1729. The page confusingly states both years but it is clear (by going over the months on the pages before and after) that this marriage took place on 26 November 1728. What I can read on the page is merely: "Johann Nathanael Holfeldt, Corporal vom Oldenburgske gevb. [gevorben] [Inf.] Regiment und jgfr [Jungfrau] Elisabeth Dorothea [...] Major Ram [... illegible ...]"

As to her husband, Johan Nathanael von Hoelfeldt, who is of interest to me, he was born in Spandau in 1703. Although I haven't found the originating source and I find it difficult to believe, internet sources tell me that Elisabeth Dorothea was in fact already his third wife while he was only 25 years of age (and he would later marry his fourth wife Karen Sophie von Harboe in 1752). His first and second wives then would likely also have been military-related wives. From 1720 to 1735, he served in the Oldenburgske gevb. Inf. Reg., in (on his own accord) Pomerania, Denmark, Holstein and Oldenburg. His marriage, therefore, in Rendsburg in 1728, fits well in the Holstein period (and may even have led to his later deployment and promotion to another regiment in Norway in 1735).

 

I'd be very interested in learning more about any of these people, and especially on the identity of the first and second wife of Johan Nathanael von Hoelfeldt. On the latter, thanks to this new information, it looks like a good starting point to search around garrison towns in Pomerania, Denmark, Holstein and Oldenburg.

Endret Lørdag 20:28 av ahofelt