foreldre av/parents of Ole Larsen Sundby (1815-1896) of Nannestad

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is the marriage (as opposed to the engagement) of Ole Larsen Sundby. I cannot see any new information, but some of the writing is quite difficult to read.

 

file:///Users/tybring/Desktop/Genealogy/Oslo%20Domkirke%201828-1847%20Sundby%20marriage.html

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is the baptism of August Leonard Sundby. He is born it looks like Sept. 8, 1840, only a few months after the marriage of his parents. For some reason he is baptised in Aker parish, rather than Vor Frelser where it seems the family was living

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?urnread_imagesize=gigant&info=topp&hode=nei&show=43&uid=91731&js=j

 

Here is a working link (I hope) to the marriage of Ole and Petronelle:

Oslo Domkirke 1828-1847 Sundby marriage.html

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is another version of the birth of Ole's son August Leonard. It appears that the sponsors are as follows:

 

? Haagensen, Peter Thoresen, Petter Juul, Ole Strom?, Madam Haagensen, Birthe Thoresen, Margrethe Hendriksen, Anne Knudsen, Ellen Dahl. This is quite a mixed bag of people. I shall have to review the sponsors in Nannestad to see if there is any connection to family at home.

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?urnread_imagesize=gigant&info=topp&hode=nei&show=155&uid=91868&js=j

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

They seem to have been on the move just around the time they got married, maybe they were living temporarily somewhere, -they must have been kind of in a hurry. ;) ☺

 

And Ole Sundby seems to have made it well quite fast in the 1840’s, don’t you think? I wonder if his work was connected to the fortress, it must have been a lot of uniforms to make and mend in this area.. http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akershus_slott_og_festning.

That he is in the taxprotocol of 1845 shows he earned or had a fortune worth at least 100dlr. As the family leaves Nannestad in 1822 “for fortjeneste” (to make an income), and that the family don’t seem to be mentioned amongst the land owing farmers or leaseholders in Nannestad makes me think he made it for himself, unless he or his father had allodium or leasholder rights they were bought out from somehow. Just a thought..

 

Map of Christiania 1838 http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/byarkivet%20%28BAR%29/Internett%20%28BAR%29/Bilder/Kart/Grosch/Kart_1830.jpg

shows street names in the city that equals what today is called “Kvadraturen” in Oslo http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+map+r%C3%A5dhusgaten+20+oslo&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x46416e88897e1c31:0xe15a78b22d766d11,R%C3%A5dhusgata+20,+0151+Oslo,+Norway&ei=e0eITr6dM4vTsgaFoOjgAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ8gEwAA

 

I think there might be some details that could give more information on where they stayed that could help narrow a search in the “inflyttede and utflyttede” protocols, and further, where to find the burials of Lars and Anne. But it’s not easy to read, see i.e. the vaccination of Albert Emil in 1844, the word in front of “skredder” could give additional information on what kind of work Ole Sundby did, but I’m not able to read it.. :/

 

1840, June Oslo Domkirke engagement: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7375&idx_id=7375&uid=ny&idx_side=-59

“Født i Nannestad bosatt som skredder ….. i ……. “ (Could be Skippergaden?)

 

1840 July, Oslo Domkirke, marriage: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=661&idx_id=661&uid=ny&idx_side=-283

 

1840, September, Aker, bapt. August Leonard http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7695&idx_id=7695&uid=ny&idx_side=-43

“Agersgaden..”

(1865 August Leonard http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f61001&gardpostnr=767&personpostnr=8481&merk=8481#ovre )

 

1842, Desember, Oslo Domkirke, bapt Albert Emil: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=654&idx_id=654&uid=ny&idx_side=-189

 

1844, Oslo Domkirke, vaccination, Albert Emil http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5805&idx_id=5805&uid=ny&idx_side=-3

“….skredder Ole Sundbye"

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Aker, Ministerialbok nr. 17 (1829-1852), Vaksinerte 1841, side 409, nr 290 August Leonard

 

"Akersgaden"

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7721&idx_id=7721&uid=ny&idx_side=-377

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet, Ministerialbok nr. 27 (1828-1840), Innflyttede 1833, side 320-321, nr 208

 

1833 Ole Larsen 18år skredderlærling, fra Aker

 

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7244&idx_id=7244&uid=ny&idx_side=-164

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061006010729.jpg

 

"Apprentice with tailor Sundbye in Grubbegaden" :blink:

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

This http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=DP03011820gar&personpostnr=5477&merk=5477 and http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=DP03011820gar&personpostnr=7539&merk=7539

made me think of this http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=134&personpostnr=2632&merk=2632#ovre

[Tybring Hemphill]

Heidi - you have solved the riddle, I am quite certain. I know that we looked at this family before, but the age of Lars Olsen was not quite right. If Lars Olsen was going to be 50 in 1822 and therefore born about 177, he should have been 28 not 25 in the 1801 census. Perhaps the original was misinterpreted when it was transcribed? Do you know if it is possible to see the original of the census returns?

 

How on earth did you find Ole? I would have looked in Aker parish not Vor Frelser since that is where August was baptised. It seems, though as if they had two residences almost at the same time - does this have something to do with the fact that Petronelle was pregnant before they were married. Was that scandalous at the time or was it OK as long as they were married by the time the child was born. As I said earlier, I was surprised how many unmarried mothers were having babies baptised in Nannestad in the early 1800s.

So if this is indeed the family of Lars Olsen, it looks like he gave up the tailoring trade, while his brother Hans continued and moved to the city and eventually took on his nephew Ole Larsen as an apprentice. Is that your view of things as well?

 

What does it mean that Lars Olsen's grandfather "har vilkaar av gaarden"? And what can we conclude from the fact that they are all living together in one family unit - that suggests to me some stability in any event. I will have to learn more about this Flatner gaard, but sadly nobody has replied to my post about Nannestad bygdebok yet.

 

This is very exciting, Heidi, and I cannot thank you enough for your insight, perseverance and hard work. Even though the trail seemed a bit cold at times, you have kept going.

 

Tybring

[Tybring Hemphill]

In my last post I wrote that Lars Olsen was born in "177" based on his age when leaving Nannestad - it should have said 1773.

 

Thinking more about these new discoveries, I wonder why Hans Olsen the tailor uses the last name Sundby? When we see him in 1801 he is living in Flatner. Perhaps he moves to Sundby just like his brother Lars around 1815, before moving to Oslo. I shall have to look for him in the utflyttede from Nannestad.

 

I did not know that Ole Larsen had another son, his second named Albert Emil. I wonder what became of him.

 

Given the age of Lars Olsen's grandparents in 1801, we can guess that they likely died not so long after and perhaps now have some hope of finding a skifte that will set out the whole family relationship (though the 1801 census does an amazingly good job of that)

 

I suspect that you are right, Heidi, that Ole Larsen was a self-made man who got his work making uniforms. His son August was in the army and I have heard that the other sons were as well.

 

In the Innflyttede for 1833, does it not suggest that Ole Larsen came from Aker and was also born there? That does not seem correct. Can I clarify whether this Aker that he came from is the Aker where he baptised his son August? And is that the same Aker that the family moved to from Nannestad in 1822? Or are there two places named Aker? I am a little uncertain about this.

[Tybring Hemphill]

I think I have found the records of the deaths of the parents and grandparents of Lars Olsen:

 

Marthe Hansdatter buried Nov. 8, 1821/died Oct 31, 1821 at Søndre Sscjenum aged 79 Vilkarskone: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=gr02381815

 

Ole Christensen buried May 5, 1819/died Apr 24, 1819, at Sundbye i Bjerke aged 78 Vilkaarsmand: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=gr02381815

 

Christen Michelsen buried June 4, 1801 at Flatner aged 71: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=gr02381792

 

 

Berthe/Birthe Justesdatter buried Sept. 22, 1810 at Østlie aged 86: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=gr02381792

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - You will find "Rødtvedt" in Østre Aker Akershus.

Johnny

[Tybring Hemphill]

Thanks Johnny. So is that a different place than Aker parish in the city of Oslo/Christiania? I am guessing so. Tybring

[Tybring Hemphill]

I've been through the confirmation in Nannestad for the years 1740-1750 and have found two that could be

 

Birthe Justesdatter Aamot aged 17 in 1747:

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=65&uid=184060&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1&lc=x%259CK%25B42%25B2%25AA.%25B62%25B4R%25CAT%25B2.%25B62%25B1R2733%25021%2581B%25C5J%25D6%2599Vf%25A6%25D6%25B5%2500%25C0%2524%2509%25C2

 

and Christen Mikkelsen Buscherud aged 16 1/2 in 1744: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_side=63&show=79&uid=184060&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1

 

The only problem is that according to the 1801 census, she was older than he, born about 1726/7 not 1730 and he was born about 1730/1 not 1728.

 

 

I could not find their son Ole Christensen baptised in 1753 or 1754 in Nannestad as I would have expected.

 

I could find no skifte for any of Lars Olsen's parents or grandparents, at least not under the names of the farms where they are listed as living at the time of their death, using the dates of death/burial that I have already provided.

[Karin Moen Oslo]

Thanks Johnny. So is that a different place than Aker parish in the city of Oslo/Christiania? I am guessing so. Tybring

Aker was east and west of Oslo city, Rødtvedt was in the east part, until 1948 then it all became Oslo.

Here is Rødtvedt in 1865

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0218&kenr=012&bnr=0017&lnr=000

and 1910 Østre/east Aker

http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036372030867/

Rødtvedt gård

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4fa240e5-f8e1-48af-a743-eea4678e6fad

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is the engagement on Mar 2, 1752 and marriage on April 6, 1752 of Constabel og Ungkarl Christen Michelsen Bustherud(?) and piger Berthe Justesdatter Rue(?):

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103060577.jpg

 

Is a constabel an army rank or just like a local police officer? There seem to have been lots of army around in Nannestad at the time.

 

I tried to find Ole Sundby in the Utflyttede from Aker in Akershus at any time between 1830 to 1834 to fit with the record from Aker parish in Oslo (I still find this confusing)that shows him inflyttede in 1832/3. I cannot find it at all

 

Perhaps I am putting the cart before the horse, though, in seeking information about the earlier generations. It is still just a very shrewd guess that Hans Sundby is the Uncle of my Ole Larsen. The Ole Hansen Sundby who is a tailor in the 1865 census mentioned earlier is therefore born about 1825, and according to the two entries for him in the census, at Ullensaker or more specifically Høland's Prestegjeld. That means that we should find the expected brother of Lars Olsen, namely Hans Olsen (Sundby living at Høland about 1825 and the obviously moving to Oslo before 1833 when his nephew arrives. One would guess that Ole Larsen and his cousin Ole Hansen were both apprenticed to Hans and that being in the same trade they would have had quite a bit in common and maybe appear at the birth of each other's children. It would be good to figure out when/if Ole Hansen apprenticed with his father Hans Sundby in Oslo.

 

These are the two Ole born to a Hans Olsen in Ullensaker in 1824 or 1825:

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103010259.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103010250.jpg

 

I don't know if either is the right one, But I could see nothing of great help.

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is the engagement on Mar 2, 1752 and marriage on April 6, 1752 of Constabel og Ungkarl Christen Michelsen Bustherud(?) and piger Berthe Justesdatter Rue(?):

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103060577.jpg

 

Is a constabel an army rank or just like a local police officer? There seem to have been lots of army around in Nannestad at the time.

 

I tried to find Ole Sundby in the Utflyttede from Aker in Akershus at any time between 1830 to 1834 to fit with the record from Aker parish in Oslo (I still find this confusing)that shows him inflyttede in 1832/3. I cannot find it at all

 

Perhaps I am putting the cart before the horse, though, in seeking information about the earlier generations. It is still just a very shrewd guess that Hans Sundby is the Uncle of my Ole Larsen. The Ole Hansen Sundby who is a tailor in the 1865 census mentioned earlier is therefore born about 1825, and according to the two entries for him in the census, at Ullensaker or more specifically Høland's Prestegjeld. That means that we should find the expected brother of Lars Olsen, namely Hans Olsen (Sundby living at Høland about 1825 and the obviously moving to Oslo before 1833 when his nephew arrives. One would guess that Ole Larsen and his cousin Ole Hansen were both apprenticed to Hans and that being in the same trade they would have had quite a bit in common and maybe appear at the birth of each other's children. It would be good to figure out when/if Ole Hansen apprenticed with his father Hans Sundby in Oslo.

 

These are the two Ole born to a Hans Olsen in Ullensaker in 1824 or 1825:

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103010259.jpg

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103010257.jpg

 

 

I don't know if either is the right one, But I could see nothing of great help.

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Hi Tybring, You know those moments when fact comes around and ruin all the fun? Well, this is one of them.. In searching for proof that Hans Olsen Sundby was the same person as Hans Olsen (Flatner), I looked through the bygdebok checking all mentioning of Flatner, and under Østli I found this:

 

ØSTLI

“…….

2)PER HANSEN makeskiftet I 1803 Østli med Flatner og flyttet dit. Hit (til Østli) kom

3)OLE KRISTENSEN som solgte to tredjeparter for 400dlr til sønnen Lars Olsen. Den tredje parten skulle etter hans død tilfalle sønnen Hans Olsen. Ole Kristensen var odelsmann til Flatner som han kjøpte I 1811 og straks solgte til prokurato Knud karl Ktogh. Ole Kristensen, kanskje fra Harstadstua, var gift med Marte Hansdatter (17751-1805) Barn: Lars 1776 (visstnok født på Røtnes), Anne 1780-85, født på Flatner, Hans 1782, Dorte 1785-1809, Kristoffer 1789, Berte 1789-1805. Ole Kristensen solgte I 1815 en part på 1/8lpd til sønnen

4a) HANS OLSEN 1782-1831 gm Marte Larsdatter 1780-1837. Barn: Berte 1805, Anne f 1807, Marte 1811, Mari 1814-19, Ingeborg, 1822.

Garden ble solgt for 90dlr til broren

4b) LARS OLSEN 1776-1853 ble I 1811 gift med Eli Kristoffersdatter fra Nedre Lauvås (Myrhaug) 1788-1832. Lars Olsen solgte I 1840 3/8ld for 260dlr til Hans Thoresen. Lars Olsen ble 2.gang gim Marte Hansdatter. Barn: Hans f 1833, Ole f 1836, Kristoffer 1839, Marie f 1847, Kristian f 1850.”

 

And I guess this rules the “Flatner brothers” out, and we are back to start, -or rather the fun starts all over again!

 

Let us see what we can find about Hans Olsen Syndby, tailor in Christiania:

 

1824: Hans Olsen Sundby 31 år – Anne Hansdatter Strøm

 

Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet, Klokkerbok nr. 1 (1817-1825), Ekteviede 1824, side 424-425 nr 46

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7381&idx_id=7381&uid=ny&idx_side=-216

Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet, Ministerialbok nr. 9 (1823-1824), Ekteviede 1824, side 92-93, nr 45

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7238&idx_id=7238&uid=ny&idx_side=-49

Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet, Forlovererklæringer nr. 12 (1819-1824), Forlovererklæringer 1824, uten sidenr.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7372&idx_id=7372&uid=ny&idx_side=-62

 

Nothing about place of birth as far as I can see, but there is one person fitting, at Sundby in Ullensaker! Another riddle! A magic coincidence or... ?

 

1801, Hans Olsen 9 år, Sundby, Hovin i Ullensaker

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=7100&personpostnr=92218&merk=92218#ovre

 

I will more look into this later, am in a hurry right now, -just wanted you to know that the Flatner-brothers seem to be a dead end, -but at least we know that!

Heidi

[Tybring Hemphill]

How disappointing, but as you say, the research will rise again like a phoenix. Here is a reference to Ole Pedersen the next potential father to Lars Olsen, givig his personal details which I will investigate further. The summary, though is as follows:

 

Vervet soldat Peder Olsen married Margrete Christophersdatter. They had a son Ole Pedersen baptisedMay 14, 1755 in Ullensaker and died Sept 19, 1814 in Allgot and was buried Sept 27, 1814 in Ullensaker.

 

Ole Pedersen married on Jun 23, 1780 at Hovind, Ullensaker to Dorthe Olsdatter, daughter of Ole Jonsøn and Mari Christensdatter. Dorthe was baptised Apr. 3, 1754 at Hovind, Ullensaker , died Dec 1, 1822 and was buried Dec 8, 1822 at Ullensaker.

 

http://frakri.net/Slekt%20Mona%20og%20Frank/Slektstavle%20Frank/anetavle%20%20frank%20kristoffersen/3026.htm

[Tybring Hemphill]

Yet here is another posting on DIS suggesting that they married Nov 15, 1781. It begins to make one's head spin.

 

http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=25594

 

Yet I am so glad that we both preserved a dose of doubt about the Flatner boys. The mystery then is how Lars Olsen from the Sundby in Ullensaker would end up living at the Sundby in Nannestad. Is that just a coincidence? Of course it is also possible that the coincidenc is that Ole Larsen the skraeddermester just happened to apprentice with Hans Sundby in Oslo and that that person was entirely unrelated to him. It is all very strange.

 

Tybring

[Tybring Hemphill]

Is this perhaps the skifte for Ole Pedersen of Sundby? Probably it is if this is the same one who was listed in the 1801 census. But is it? I cannot tell as I cannot read it.

 

http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/25606/368/?size=gigant&mode=0

 

If Lars Olsen was in Ullensaker in 1801 he would have had to have moved from Ullensaker to Nannestad between 1801 and 1810. But looking gain, at the 1801 census from Ullensaker, the Lars Olsen who is brother of Hans Olsen, is only 11 years old, therefore born around 1790, and remember that Lars Olsen who leaves Nannestad in 1822 is then aged 50, not 32 - so that makes no sense. I begin to think that it is mere coincidence about the two Sundby tailors in Oslo, but that just seems so unlikely.

 

Tybring

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Yes, this can really make your head spin, once you’re close to solve one riddle a new one emerge. The connections between tailor Ole Larsen Sundby, and tailor Hans Olsen Sundby might be a coincidence, but what a coincidence.

 

There are a couple of things maybe worth noticing; as far as I can see, Ole Larsen did not use the name Sundby before he became an apprentice with Hans Olsen Sundby, but on the other side, his father uses Sundbyeiet in connection to his name both in 1822 and 1840 (probably given by Ole). There are connections (by marriage) between farms in the same neighbourhood as Sundby in Nannestad and Sundby in Ullensaker, but so far I have not found anything that helps this case.

But, I think you are on the right track trying to verify all the Lars Olsen candidates to eliminate them one after another, keeping a very open mind about his year of birth. (There is only one reference to his age, in 1822) I have looked for the burials of Lars Olsen and Anne Christendatter in Aker between 1822-1840 without finding them. Then I thought they might have been living with Ole in Rådhusgaten, and I think Oslo Domkirke parish has to be checked too.

 

I will keep on looking, -slightly hung up as I have become on this “classical case of Lars Olsen” B) , and until I have digested the latest postings, here are some things I forgot to comment on earlier;

 

About Aker

The name derivate from the farm name Aker that gave name to Akershus fortress (ca year 1300), that again gave name to the parish Aker, the street Akersgaten (old Agersgaden), the Aker river and later the Akershus county.

 

In the 1800’s (and prior) Aker was the name for the area surrounding the city of Christiania, and Aker was one big parish, inhabitants belonging to Aker Kirke.

If you look at the map from 1838 in an earlier posting, you will see a quite small area with straight streets. This equals what was the city of Christiania, inhabitants belonging to Oslo Domkirke/Vår Frue parish.

Inhabitants in the fortress and fortress-area also belonged to Aker kirke/Aker parish, but from 1823 to Akershus Slottskirke/Garnisonmenigheten.

 

Throughout the 1800’s the city of Christiania grew, and parts of Aker were included in Christiania at different times. All you see in the old map is today a part of the city/county of Oslo.

 

Read more on parish history in Oslo http://www.arkivverket.no/arkivverket/Tema/Slektsgransking/Hovedkilder/Kirkeboeker/Soknehistorikk/Oslo

 

The challenge in searching for Ole Larsen Sundby is that he has moved around the boarders of these three parishes even though he physically just moved “around the corner”. Look at the old map (or a new, the streets are still the same.) you will se that Akersgaten starts by the fortress and goes north. The parallel street is Grubbegaten. I suspect the northern parts of these streets to be in Aker parish at the time. August Leonard was baptised in Aker, place of living is Akersgaten. Ole Larsen moving from Aker to Grubbegaten in Christiania, into Oslo Domkirke parish. And we don’t know where in Aker Ole Larsen lived with(?) his parents.

 

About kårfolk

kår = an allowance of food, living space, etc. (basically room and board)

given to a farmer in his old age as a form of pension after he had given the

farm to his heir (usually the oldest son).

The "kår" agreement was usually made with the son/daughter who took over/inherited the farm. Also see "føderåd" http://snl.no/f%C3%B8der%C3%A5d

 

kårfolk = elderly couple who is supported by kår

kårhus = house on the farm where the kårfolk live

kårkone = elderly woman who is being supported by kår

kårmann = elderly man who is being supported by kår

kårstue = house on a farm where the kårfolk live

 

About children & marriage

It’s almost impossible to say why the Sundbys seem to move around just at the time they did, but I would guess that it could be of practical reasons. If they got pregnant while both living with their parents or at their workplace, they needed to get married in a hurry, more of social/moral reasons than legal. They had to move somewhere together, on their own, or maybe temporarily to relatives or friends.

About children born out of wedlock, legal consequences at different times: http://www.lokalhistoriewiki.no/index.php/Leksikon:Leierm%C3%A5l

[Tybring Hemphill]

Hello Heidi,

I am on my way out, but I saw you had made yet another post. I cannot thank you enough for all of the help and interest you have shown in this search. The thought crossed my mind, though, that we must consider yet one further possibility if the others seem so highly coincidental. Perhaps the Bygdebok has made a mistake as well somewhere in its conclusions. I will look later at the dates given to see if I am convinced that the Lars Olsen who is getting married and having children is indeed the one from Flatner - we should find some familiar names as sponsors I would think since the Flatner family is quite "together" in 1801.

 

Tybring

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybril - You mention in post 28 that you find it strange that Lars Olsens first son was named Christopher.

It is possible that Anne Was a Widow When she married Lars.I found a Christopher Poulsen Sundbye who married

a Anne Christiansdatter january 11 1795 in Nannestad.In 1801 we find these on Sundbye: Christopher Poulsen 28 years

old and Anne Christiansdatter 27 years old,widt a son Christopher 3 years old.Christopher Poulsen Sundby was burried

oktober 28 1805 in Nannestad,50 years old. Johnny

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

I have seen this couple too, who btw are not mentioned at Sundby in the bygdebok, the only problem is that the woman married to Christopher Poulsen is Anne Christiansdatter, not Christensdatter. The couple also has a son named Christian. The Anne married to Lars Olsen Sundbyeiet is called Christensdatter three times in the baptism protocols, and also in the emigration protocol, so that seem to be her correct fathers-name.

 

But I'm glad you're still looking, Karl Johnny, this is the needle in the hey stack, and the more eyes that looks etc :)

 

Heidi

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Hi Tybring.

Checking and double-checking paid off; I found Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter in Aker. They are at Rødtvedt, not on the main farm, but on the crofters place Apelløkken. They are here in 1834, 1840 and 1842. I can’t find them in 1841, maybe they were temporarily away. (I think the census was taken late in the year, that would be right before christmas, and at the time Ole Larsen and Petronelle’s second child was born.)

 

http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/slektshistorie/akermanntall/

See pdf’s for the different years. Øvre Romsaas district, Rødtvedt/Apelløkken (Abelløkken), in 1834 on page 7 no. 87 and 88.

 

The finding does not give much new information. In 1834 Lars Olsen “has been the tenant but has given it up to Henrik” That must be the Henrik Halvorsen mentioned at the same place. Lars and Anne have a foster child in 1834, Mina Soelberg, age 11. (Could be a relative. Solberg in Nannestad is a crofters place to the farm Økri (Økern).

 

The age given at the different times does not clear things up in regards to their actual birth year. In 1840 it seems to be 10 years wrong for both of them!

 

From the Aker census lists:

Lars 1834= 64 = 1770

Anne 1834= 61= 1773

 

Lars 1840= 59 = 1781

Anne 1840=57 = 1783

 

Lars 1842= 76 = 1766

Anne 1842= 67= 1775

 

The ”normal” variations come from how the question was asked. My experience is that in this period, it was a question of the year they were in. When Lars Olsen gives 50 as his age in 1822, the year of birth could be between 1771-1773:

 

1822: have had his 50 birthday in 1821 = 1771

1822: have had (or will have) his 50th birthday in 1822 = 1772

1822: ”in his 50th year”, will have his 50th birthday in 1823 = 1773

For Anne Christensdatter the same would be 1775/1776/1777

 

I can’t understand the variation in 1842, but I have seen similar before. I have no idea of how/why these variations in age could appear.

 

At least we know now that both Lars and Anne were alive in 1842. Next step will be finding their burials even though I suspect that it won’t give us more information than place of living at the time of death.

 

But, finding them in Aker is a good incentive to keep on scrolling the church records. :)

 

And, I have to find out more on the fosterchild Mina Soelberg, I wonder if she had any connection to Solberg in Nannestad. My own gg-grandfather was born at Solberg in 1835.. :unsure:

 

Heidi