foreldre av/parents of Ole Larsen Sundby (1815-1896) of Nannestad

[Tybring Hemphill]

Hello Heidi and Johnny,

 

What a difficult problem this has turned out to be. It certainly explains why this family does not seem to have been traced before! Hopefully with all of the Lars Olsens findable in the 1801 census, knowing where he was in 1810 and then working back from the information we know, we shall find him eventually. It is a fine discovery you have made in Aker Mantall, Heidi. I did not understand quite how to use those before when you mentioned them first. That at least cannot be a coincidence, And I am sure the listings must be the Lars and Anne we are seeking. It is a shame about the ages being so uncertain.

 

I decided to check the inflyttede to Aker for 1822 and the ages given by the couple: Lars 50 and Anne 46 are the same they gave for the utflyttede when they left Nannestad.

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=13&uid=88175&urnread_imagesize=big&hode=nei&ls=1&lc=x%259CK%25B42%25B2%25AA.%25B62%25B4R%25CAT%25B2.%25B62%25B1R2774%25071%2581B%25C5J%25D6%2599V%2586%25C6%25D6%25B5%2500%25C0%2518%2509%25BC at #32, and

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=107&uid=87882&urnread_imagesize=big&hode=nei&ls=1&lc=x%259CK%25B42%25B2%25AA.%25B62%25B4R%25CAT%25B2.%25B62%25B1R2774%25011%2581B%25C5J%25D6%2599V%2586%2506%25E6%25D6%25B5%2500%25C9%257F%2509%25ED at #13

 

I would tend to think, therefore, that when they were younger and gave the same ages twice to different officials, that those dates are the most reliable of those we have, and better than the Aker mantall.

 

I have looked as well for record of Ole Larsen leaving Aker between 1827 and 1833 inclusive. But now I think that this search was perhaps misguided as perhaps when he is apprenticed to Hans Sundby he is still in the Aker parish. Is that correct?

 

I have so far searched for the death of Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter in Aker in the years 1842 to 1845 inclusive. I have not found any Lars Olsen that might fit, but could this be Anne Christensdatter?

 

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_side=509&show=562&uid=85626&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1

[Tybring Hemphill]

I meant to add, does anyone have access to a bygdebok for Aker, where perhaps Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter would be listed. After all, they were in Aker between at least 1822 and 1842 - so at least 20 years.

 

I couldn't find Mina Soelberg with a basic internet search. Is Mina short for something?

 

Does anyone think that there might be any kind of apprenticeship records for a tailor's guild or something like that, or were tailors not organized into guilds at that time?

 

Tybring

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

I just found the burial of Lars Olsen:

 

1854: Død 15 januar, begravet 18 januar, fattiglem gift mand Lars Olsen, 93år, gjenlevende kone Anne Christensdatter, Rødtvedteie, dødsårsak alderdom

 

Aker, Ministerialbok nr. 20 (1853-1857), Døde og begravede 1854, side 444

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=571&idx_id=571&uid=ny&idx_side=-447

[Tybring Hemphill]

Well done! I don't know how you find things as quickly as you seem to Heidi (though perhaps it took a long time for you and it is just my perception that you are very fast) It took me close to an hour just to look at 4 years.

 

It seems that lars died not so much of old age but of accelerating age. By the time he dies he is 93, born therefore about 1761, earlier than any of the other birth dates he had given so far. One wonders if there was something intentional in this misleading information or if he really had no idea and failed to keep any track of the years.

 

It is rather sad that he is living as a pauper when his son seems to have been quite successful in Oslo. Perhaps there is a story there, but I do not think we shall ever know. If i understand, his wife was still alive when he died in 1854. I shall see therefore if i can find her. By the time she dies she is likely to be 120. With my luck, though, she will finally leave Aker and I will not find her.

[Tybring Hemphill]

I have looked for Anne Christensdatter in the ministerialbok for the years 1854 and 1855 but cannot find her there. I cannot find a ministerialbok for Aker for burials for years after 1855. There seems to be a klokkerbok, wHich I believe is supposed to be a copy of the ministerialbok, but I cannot even see the 1854 death of Lars Olsen in the klokkerbok, so I am not so sure that it is a good copy.

 

Interestingly, at p.466 of the misisterialbok, there is the death of a Lars Olsen aged 82 (so therefore born 1772 - just like when Lars Olsen left Nannestad. However, there is no mention of his wife and that notice on the death of the 93 year old Lars Olsen is more convincing.

 

Finally I note two people named Sundby died on p.467 - a Nicoline Sundby aged 7 so born about 1847 and at the same time an Ingeborg Sundby aged 4.5, born about 1850. Could they be other children of Ole Larsen? His children that I know of are:

 

August born 1840

Albert Emil 1842

Sophie A born 1844

Marthine L born 1851

Laura E born 1853

Axel born 1854

Kathinka born 1858

Carl F born 1859 and

Vanlentin born 1862

 

Therefore there is certainly a gap in the births that could fit Nicoline.

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - Lars Olsens age at death is incorrect,I belive that he was 83 yers old at death.

Found Annes death:Legdeslem widow Anne Christensdatter Rødtvedt,died mars 31 burried april 9 1860

85 years old. Vestre Aker min.1857/1877 post 407. Johnny

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - I forget to mention: It is Vestre Aker in OSLO . Johnny

[Tybring Hemphill]

Well researched Karl Johnny! Thank you so much. I continually imagine that you and Heidi have some tricks of which I am completely unaware. I suppose knowing the geography a bit better would help.

 

So age 85 in 1860 means born about 1775, which is within the range of dates of birth based on her age in 1822 at emigration from Nannestad, where she was 46 in 1822. I would guess, as I said earlier, that the 1822 record is one of the more accurate, and if it corresponds with a record like death which is more important than the others, then that seems good confirmation. Therefore, we should be able to find an Anne Christensdatter in the 1801 census aged about 25 or 26.

 

As for Lars Olsen, you may be correct that the number for his age should have said 83 instead of 93, although the writing is certainly clear. If it were 83 in 1854, that would give him a birth date around 1771, which again is within the range of dates of birth based on his age in 1822 at emigration from Nannestad where he was 50 in 1822. Therefore we should be able to find a Lars Olsen in the 1801 census aged about 29 or 30.

 

I will run some searches again with that particular focus and less focus on the geographical location.

 

Here is the link, by he way to the death of Anne Christensdatter. Can you tell what the words are before her name?

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060208030414.jpg

 

 

 

 

Here are the Lars Olsens who fit the age profile and live in Akershus:

 

aged 29 in 1801: http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=10&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=7467&personpostnr=101462&merk=101462#ovre

 

and aged 30 in 1801 (all but the first and third would require the loss of his wife and children, the first of a much older wife and the third he is single:

 

http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=21&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=6930&personpostnr=88151&merk=88151#ovre

 

Unfortunately, I see nothing in any of these that make me think immediately that we have the right person, but it seems a worthwhile search nonetheless.

 

 

 

And here are the Anne Christensdatters who fit the age profile and live in Akershus:

 

 

aged 25 in 1801: http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=28&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=7402&personpostnr=99926&merk=99926#ovre

 

and aged 26 in 1801: http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=32&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=7132&personpostnr=93114&merk=93114#ovre

 

Without a marriage record, and this uncertain evidence about their ages, it is indeed difficult to know where to go next. I do think the Bygdebok for Aker could be helpful if it showed the family at Rodtvedt, and certainly if we could establish some connection to Hans Olsen Sundby we would have a little more to work with. What would have drawn the family to move from Nannestad to Rodtvedt? They certainly knew where they were going when they left Nannestad, so it must have been planned for some reason - but what?

 

Tybring

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - The words before Anne's name is "Legdeslem".Living on "Legd" was the older types of social care.

Poor people with no income could live on a farm where they had family,they could also live with strangers who tok

care of them.It is possible that the Legdeslem give something back by working on the farm.

 

By Lars Olsen's death in 1854,he is referred as a "Fattiglem"which means a poor person.

 

I also belive that Anne Christensdatter on Elstad,26 years old can be a good candidate.

 

Johnny

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - There is an incomplete copy of church records for Eidvold.You found it at Wangensteen.net

and Digitalarkivet.You found the link on "Bruker forum":Eidsvollbakkene/Eidsvoll Akershus by Terje Alfheim.

I belive it is best to go for Digitalarkivet in post 3.

Johnny

[Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you for the translation and explanation of the status of Anne Christensdatter, Karl Johnny. I did not know that there was any such support at the time. It does seem strange that she did not live with her own son in Oslo when he was clearly quite successful by 1860 - I believe he had a servant living in the house by the time of the 1865 census. It makes one wonder if there was some difficulty in the relationship. Ole Larsen the skreddermester was the only son of Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter and yet they are not sponsors at the birth of his children (at least not the first two that I have looked at so far) and meanwhile they take in a fosterchild (Mina Soelberg). It simply seems peculiar to me.

 

Thank you as well for the reference to the Eidsvoll partial records. I do not understand when or why these partial copies were made, but I could not see anything of relevance to our search, unfortunately.

 

Tybring

[Tybring Hemphill]

I am running low on ideas, but thought I would search the Nasjonalibliteket online for references to Rodtvedt to see if anything of interest came up. I do not think so, but am not sure. I see a reference to a skreddermester and also to someone named Laache, a name I think that I have seen in the Nannestad recods. As I have said, I am now grasping at straws.

 

 

http://www.nb.no/utlevering/nb/08707984ef03df516148fdd3e884d7a5#&struct=DIV58

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here is the birth/baptism of Ole Larsen's first known daughter, just to see if family was involved as sponsors. I do not think so, but maybe there is a reference to skredder Sundby as a sponsor?

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060217020799.jpg

It is not spelled that way, but the spelling and naming seem quite flexible. Ole Larsen's wife Petronelle is listed as Andersdatter not Amundsdatter and the daughter is named Caroline Sophie Albertine, not Sophie Alvilde as in the 1865 census (although there may be some notation that I cannot quite read about the name Alvilde vs Albertine)

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Hi Tybring.

I’m a bit low of ideas too, but I don’t think we should give up just yet! ☺ There are a few things that points to Eidsvoll with the unfortunate loss of sources. I’m mainly thinking of these two candidates:

Lars Olsen, servant at Baarlie (Bårli) : http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=12&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=7383&personpostnr=99031&merk=99031#ovre

Anne Christensdatter, servant at Styren: http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=36&filnamn=f18010237&gardpostnr=73&personpostnr=2416&merk=2416#ovre

(The locations of Bårli and Styren in Eidsvoll is today about 20min by car from Bjørke in Nannestad, I would guess about 20-25km in distance.)

 

Under the circumstances it looks almost impossible to find out more about them, or any other candidates in Eidsvoll in this period. But there is a last chance; they might be mentioned in the bygdebooks from Eidsvoll.

I also think that DIS Norge has the most complete overview of available sources for Eidsvoll http://oa.disnorge.no/slektsforskning-i-akershus or http://www.disnorge.no/genress/index.php?todo=visKategori&kid=100137

 

And about Aker; Aker parish was divided into two parishes Østre and Vestre Aker about the time between Lars and Annes deaths. Unfortunately there is no bygdebooks for Aker. It’s being planned, but I think it will take some time. And, I guess, the authors will mainly have to be working with the same sources as we do..

The site I know of with most relevant information about Aker, besides Oslo Byarkiv, is http://www.ager.no/

 

I agree with you that it, at first sight, looks sad that Lars and Anne should die as paupers while their son seem to be a successful citizen. And it also looks kind of strange that they have a foster child but, apparently, no contact with their son. And that Ole would give Nannestad as his place of living by the time of his confirmation. As you say, there might be a story, but then again, things looks (literarily) very black and white from where we see it in 2011! ☺ That Lars is mentioned as the former tenant in 1834, and that they have a foster child indicates that they were not that poor all their life, don’t you think?

There could be a possibility that there are records from the Fattigvesenet in Aker that could tell when or how long they received support. This would be the place to look for it http://www.arkivverket.no/arkivverket/Bruk-av-arkiv/Arkiv-og-samlinger/Arkivkataloger

 

I also think that the ages Lars and Anne gave when leaving Nannestad is the most consistent. This based on that this is probably the one time we can assume that the information is given from Lars and Anne personally to the priest that wrote the certificate. Neighbours might as well have given the information in some of the censuses in the 1840’s. I think we have to be quite imaginative in trying to understand how these variations in age could occur. And, I will still hold Lars Olsen year of birth to be between 1770-73, probably 1771 or 1772, not to loose anything in the searches. And I agree that the most probable year of birth for Anne Christensdatter is 1775.

 

In regards to the baptism of Caroline Sophie Albertine/Alvilde it says under the name Albertine “ Efter faderens …. (senere?) opgivelse feilaktig for Alvilde”. Seems like Ole Sundby detected that his daughters name was written incorrect in the churchbook, and got it corrected. He was also one of the sponsors himself; the last name is “faderen selv” I can not see any Sundby, but one Fredrikke Sandboe.

 

Next step is as you say to look closer at the sponsors. I will take a look back at the sponsors in Nannestad to see if I might have missed something. There are also a couple of other things to follow up on; what happened to Christoffer Larsen born 1812, and still, if there is any connection, except tailoring, between Ole Larsen Sundby and Hans Olsen Sundby.

 

So, I guess there still are some church records that have to be checked, and there are no short cuts, only patience. And sometimes these protocols give a little insight into the society; Did you notice that there was an epidemic of cholera in Aker and Christiania in 1853. (Did all of Ole Sundbys family survive could be something check and add to the history..) Knowing the geography and a little history helps in choosing where to search, but how long it takes to go through a year depends on how readable it is. It’s always a nice to open a new page and see that the priest was blessed with a good handwriting!

 

Heidi☺

[Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you for all of the helpful suggestions Heidi. I shall see which I can make any progress with. This weekend is a holiday in Canada, where I live, called Thanksgiving. I will be spending time with my most important family now and may not have much chance to look at the sources you suggest right away, but I will not give up yet either.

 

Tybring

[Tybring Hemphill]

Well, I'm not making any progress I'm afraid with the sources you have suggested Heidi, though part of that may be a language barrier as my Norwegian is far less than perfect.

 

I have found the death of both Olia Larsdatter:

http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=gr02381792

and also Christopher Larsen (I believe, although at 1 1/3 years old he would have been born 1813 instead of 1812):

http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=gr02381792&gardpostnr=1819&personpostnr=1950&merk=1950#ovre

 

 

At least it is pretty well certain that they died before 1822 when the family left Nannestad with only Ole Larsen

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Hi Tybring, hope you had a nice thanksgiving.

 

I agree that the Christopher that died on Granie in 1814 is the only candidate to the Christopher you're searching. Granie is in Holter parish, so in that case, the family must have been there.

 

Along the way in looking for straws to grasp in this case, I found another thing about Ole Larsens place of living at time of his confirmation; There seem to be a discrepancy between the Ministerialbok and the Klokkerbok. The Klokkerbok says "Ole Larsen fra Rødtveidteie født i Nannestad" so he seem to be living with his family after all.

 

1829 Aker, Ole Larsen confirmation http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7693&idx_id=7693&uid=ny&idx_side=-396

 

I have sent you an email with contact details to someone I think could be able to help with a look-up in the bygdebok for Holter.

Heidi

[Tybring Hemphill]

I have been in touch with Tore Bjerkek who has been very helpful and provided the following information. He suggests that:

 

Lars Olsen was bapt Sept 17, 1769 Limset Stensgaard Nannestad son of Ole Larsen and Kari Paulsdatter who married in Nannestad Jun 12, 1769.

 

Anne Christensdatter was bapt. Dec 17, 1777 at Ho Kringler Bjerke Nannestad daughter of Christen Eriksen and Goro Johannesdatter (bapt Nov 13, 1757 of Skennumsdalen Bjerke Nannestad) Kristen was son of Erik Kristensen and Anne Andersdatter. Goro Johannesdatter was daughter of Johannes Borgersen born about 1731 and Kristi Larsdatter born about 1732.

 

 

Here are Tore's notes http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bjerkek&id=I34625

 

 

Here are some of the church records I have located that correspond with Tore's information:

 

Bapt of Goro: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103060695.jpg

 

Marriage of Ole Larsen and Kari Paulsdatter: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061106010081.jpg

 

Possible confirmation of Lars Olsen: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061106010071.jpg

 

Bapt of Lars Olsen: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061103060732.jpg

 

 

This is thought by Tore to be Anne in the 1801 census in Eidsvold: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f18010237&gardpostnr=35&personpostnr=1025&merk=1025#ovre

Tore thinks that it is the same person listed in error a second time with her parents, aged 24, even though she had moved to work as a servant.

 

Here is Johannes Borgersen and family in the 1801 census: http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=44&personpostnr=1062&merk=1062#ovre

 

 

 

I look forward to your thoughts Heidi and Karl Johnny.

 

Tybring

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - Has not given up the search on Anne C and Lars.I have also seen that Lars ho was born

september 17,1769,as Tore Bjerkek mention . This Lars fits well with Lars in 1801 at age 34,married

with Anne Nilsdatter 29 years old,but bad at 50 years old when moving to Aker in 1822.On Family search

I have found many Lars Olsen with birth plus/minus 1772.I think there must be a reason that his first

son with Anne Christensdatter was named Christopher ! I think it is possible that Lars Was the son of

Ole Christophersen Breen and Kari Jacobsdatter Breen.This Lars was born september 17,1775 Nannestad.

Ole C Breen had 6 children from 1768 to 1784.The seremoni that Tore Bjerkek mention of Ole Larsen and

Anne Nilsdatter september 20 1790 is incorrect.The brides name is Anne Cornelesdatter.You found this

couple in Nannestad on the farm Aamodt in 1801.I think Tore Bjerkeks data about Anne Christensdatter

is Correct. With regards Johnny Sommer

[Øystein Lillegaard]

Hello!

Just came across this subject, I have some Sundbyeie in my family-tree. There is a Lars Olsen Sundby born 4 of february in 1790, his parents was Ole Pedersen Sundby and Dorthe Olsdatter. This Lars was a brother of my Ole Olsen Sundby. Can this be of any interrest?

[Heidi C. Huitfeldt]

Hi Tybring.

I think there is a big mix up in “Nannestadskogen” in regards to this Lars Olsen http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=bjerkek&id=I34525

“Name: Lars Olsen , Stenset Burås Sundbyeiet

Birth: 17 SEP 1769 in Limset, Stensgård. Nannestad

Birth: 1770 in Sundbyeiet, Stensgård, Nannestad

Death: in Flyttet til Aker i 1822”

 

In my opinion this information concerns four different Lars Olsen. But, in trying to separate them I think I finally found something consistent!

 

Based on my notes, here is what I found on the four different Lars Olsen:

Lars Olsen Burås bapt 13 mar 1765

- Son of Ole Kristoffersen Buråsstuen & Berte Justsdatter, m 1755

- Married sep 1790 to Anne Corneliusdatter Kjønstad (NBB III page 218)

- Marriage sep 1790 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7663&idx_id=7663&uid=ny&idx_side=-165

- At Åmot in 1801 Lars Olsen (38) http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=36&personpostnr=875#nedre

- Anne Corneliusdatter died sep 1813 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=25&filnamn=gr02381792&gardpostnr=1744&personpostnr=1875&merk=1875#ovre

 

This is neither ”our” Lars Olsen Sunbyeiet, nor the Lars Olsen married to Anne Nilsdatter.

 

----------------------------------------------------

Lars Olsen Stenseteiet b ca 1775

- Married 1810 to Anne Larsdatter Sundbyeiet (NBB III page 321)

- Marriage 1810 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=14&filnamn=vi02381791vi&gardpostnr=411&personpostnr=1340&merk=1340#ovre

- Lars Olsen Stenset confirmation 1797 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=33&filnamn=kf02381791&gardpostnr=269&personpostnr=269&merk=269#ovre

- Unmarried servant at Morud in 1801 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=34&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=38&personpostnr=920&merk=920#ovre

 

This is not “our” Lars Olsen Sundbyeiet, nor the Lars Olsen married to Anne Nilsdatter

----------------------------------------------------

 

Lars Olsen Breen bapt sep 1775

- Son of Ole Christoffersen Breen & Kari Jacobsdatter Enger m oct 1774

- Confirmation 1790 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=10&filnamn=kf02381755&gardpostnr=1635&personpostnr=1635&merk=1635#ovre

- Married to Anne Nilsdatter

- Served at Laumb in 1798

- Selling allodium rights to his brother-in-law Halvor Jacobsen Breen in 1800 (NBB III page 130)

- Halvor Breen, married to Lars’ sister Mari Olsdatter sponsor for Ingeborg Maria 1798 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=60&filnamn=dp02381791&gardpostnr=611&personpostnr=4863&merk=4863#ovre

- Also Lars’ sister Anne Olsdatter b 1758 (Living in Breenstua, married to Jacob Trondsen) sponsor for Ingeborg Maria at same occasion 1798.

 

This must be the Lars Olsen married to Anne Nilsdatter, Sundbyeiet in 1801 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=40&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=116&personpostnr=2384&merk=2384#ovre

 

There is also a Lars Olsen, unmarried, died at Breen in 1809, age 34y 6m.

Confirmation 1789 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=kf02381755&gardpostnr=1635&personpostnr=1635&merk=1635#ovre

He must be the same as the Lars Olsen that appears several times as a sponsor with people from Breen, he is also sponsor at the baptism of Ingeborg Maria, see above.

 

----------------------------------------------------

Lars Olsen Sundbyeiet bapt 17 sep 1769

- Son of Ole Larsen Sundbyeiet & Kari Poulsdatter Sundbystuen Married jun 1769 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7663&idx_id=7663&uid=ny&idx_side=-143

- Bapt 17 sept 1769 “Ole Larsen Sundbys drengebarn Lars. fadder Jon Hansen Limseth, Anders Povelson Sundbye, Christen Torsteinsen Wigen, Inger Gudbrandsdatter Dahl, Goro Povelsdatter Sundbybraathen” http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7663&idx_id=7663&uid=ny&idx_side=-48

 

 

Mother Kari Poulsdatter, Sundby, confirmation 1761 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=kf02381755&gardpostnr=203&personpostnr=203&merk=203#ovre

 

Father Ole Larsen, Sundby confirmation 1762 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=14&filnamn=kf02381755&gardpostnr=271&personpostnr=271&merk=271#ovre

 

Ole Larsen Sundby married 2nd time in 1777 to Kirstine Larsdatter Stenseth

 

Lars Olsen in Eidsvoll 1801 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f18010237&gardpostnr=28&personpostnr=791&merk=791#ovre

 

 

I am quite sure this is the Lars Olsen we are looking for! :rolleyes:

 

-Both parents are from Sundby.

-His mother Kari Poulsdatter is the sister of Goro Povelsdatter, Anders Poulsen and Elen Poulsdatter that are at Sundby in 1801 http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=f18010238&gardpostnr=116&merk=116#ovre Karen Andersdatter married to Lars Andersen is Lars Olsen’s cousin

-The same Anders Poulsen (his uncle) is sponsor at the baptism of Lars Olsen 17 sep 1769, see above

-The 1769-sponsor Christen Thorsteinsen Wigen: se my posting #45 about sponsors for Lars Olsen’s children and the connection to Nordbyvik (Wigen/Vika). Several of the sponsors of Lars Olsen children Olia, Christopher and Ole are connected through Christen Thorsteinsen Wigen.

-Ole Larsen Sundby, Lars Olsens father, is sponsor for his child Christopher in 1812

-Kirstine Larsdatter, Lars Olsens stepmother, is sponsor for his child Ole in 1815.

 

It still remains to find the parents of Ole Larsen Sunby, Lars Olsen’s father. I will look into it tomorrow.

Heidi

[Tybring Hemphill]

Well! This is all quite confusing. Even when you set it out, Heidi, I find it hard to connect the various sponsors from the baptisms of Olia, Christopher and Ole to the family (other than Ole Larsen Sundby in 1812 and Kirstine Larsdatter in 1815) so if this Ole Larsen is the grandfather of Ole Larsen Sundby, skredder of Oslo, when did he die? it would have to be after 1812.

 

But I think you have a very good point, Karl Johnny that there should be some explanation for Lars naming his first son in 1812, Christopher. Sometimes one would honour a valued friend and sponsor, but no sponsor named Christopher is there. So where does the name come from? There is an Anne Cathrine Christophersdatter of Limseth who sponsors Christopher in 1812 and maybe it is her father who is the source of the name. But who is he?

 

Ole Olsen who is named as a sponsor to Ole Larsen Sundby in 1815, could be the husband of Berthe Tostensdatter of the family Heidi has identified. But then perhaps Ole Olsen is the one mentioned by Øystein. I still cannot find Elie Abrahamsdatter, a sponsor from 1815. The link between Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter and the previous generations still remains only a reasonable guess to me until I can understand the connections to the sponsors.

[Laila Kornstad]

In Aremark in Østfold there is a widower, Lars Olsen from Torkilsrød, who is married to the girl Anne Christensdatter on Oct 27, 1810. The best men (witnesses) are Ole Olsen Bergstrøm and Jens Magnusen Strøm. (No. 15)

 

Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Aremark i Aremark, Ministerialbok nr. I 4 (1796-1814), Ekteviede 1810-1812, side 313.

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7463&idx_id=7463&uid=ny&idx_side=-97

 

I don't know if they are the right parents of Ole Larsen, but I think they fit in very well.

 

Best wishes, L. K.

[Tybring Hemphill]

Hello, Laila,

 

Thank you for your post. It is always good to keep an open mind. Aremark seems quite far from Nannestad, though, and earlier in 1810 and again in 1812 Lars Olsen and Anne Christensdatter were in Nannestad with the birth of their children Olia and Christopher. For those reasons, it seems most likely to me that this is merely a coincidence of similar names.

 

I am interested if both Heidi and Karl Johnny agree that Lars Olsen, father of Ole Larsen the skredder, was married to Anne Nilsdatter before he married Anne Christensdatter? This is the opinion of the Bygdebok, but of course that can be wrong. The first child of Lars Olsen who married Anne Nilsdatter, named Auen, was born in 1795, at which time the Lars Olsen Breen, bapt in 1775, would only have been 20 years old. I suppose that remains a posibility. This becomes so confusing, for if you look at post #34, there was some real overlap between sponsors of the children of Lars and Anne Nilsdatter and those of Lars and Anne Christensdatter, and the 1801 census shows Lars and Anne Nilsdatter together with him aged 34, so born about 1767. This suggests that a single Lars Olsen was married to both Anne Nilsdatter and Anne Christensdatter (for Lars Olsen Breen was not born until 1775). Of course his age could be incorrect on the census as we know, but I am still suspicious.

 

Tybring

[Karl Johnny Sommer]

Hi Tybring - It seems that Heidi has found the rigth people.Lars Olsen seems to have

married only once.

But it is something that can not be correct in Heidi's information,Lars Olsen on Sundby

in 1801,married with Anne Nilsdatter referred to age 34 years.It can not be rigth that

this Lars Olsen is the son of Ole Christophersen Breen baptized 1775.Here we talk about

8 years difference of age.

 

On the farm Laumb in 1801 we find Lars Olsen 26 year old,working for the widow Ragnild

Olsdatter 54 years old.Her late husband was Christopher Ingebretsen Laumb.Ragnild have

in 1801 following children: Ole 24 years old - Marthe 16 years old and Anne 10 years old.

This Lars on Laumb fits well with the birth of approximately 1775.

 

The Lars Olsen Sundby that Heidi think is rigth,is about 3 years older than Lars Olsen

50 years old in 1822.Anne Christensdatter age 24 years at Wardrum in 1801 fits well.

 

Something else,I have not find the birth of Ouen Larsen about 1795.

 

It is certainly a lot wrong about the age and years of birth about the people we have

search for.I think we must go for Heidi's conclusion.Lars Olsens Marriage I think we

will newer find.

 

With regards Karl Johnny