Militærslekten Brun-Fra Oddenes-Telemark Bl.a

[Per Nermo]

33 minutter siden, Celia Summers skrev:

.....

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118439#156079,26128725
København Sankt Nikolaj Sogn, Enesteministerialbog, 1694-1721 F, Opslag 101, left side of page, 6th baptism entry down from top of page, Year 1705, 28 Nov: Peter Bruun med h. Anne Marie William Schons ved Stranden, ... Ecchardina ... : 

 

 

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I wonder, is Ecchardina supposed to be interpreted as the name of the babtized child ?

Maybe 'Richardina' (after the mother's father) ?

.

Endret Desember 7, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Celia Summers]

11 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

.

I wonder, is Ecchardina supposed to be interpreted as the name of the babtized child ? 

.

Yes.  I have tried to do a search for her name without any luck. (Edvardina?)

Endret Desember 7, 2017 av Celia Summers

[Christian Arentz]

On 5.12.2017 at 10:25 PM, Christian Arentz said:

 

I believe it's important to regarder the goodparents:  For Elisabeth: Raadmand Eloir? Mangor, Rentesche? Nicolai Braem, Kaja Kluigen?, Mad. sal. Matthis Rasmussens baate bari? og jultrat?, Mademoiselle Rasmussens, Sr.? Catz?

and for Christopher: Etatsraad Lerche, Obl. Lutzau, ....Holst, raadinde van Knuthen (søster Corneliusdatter Lerche?), og Jomfrue van Knuthen.

I further believe that Christopher is the same as the later "fogd" in Gudbrandsdalen -1721

 

 

Elisabeths goodfather Nicolai Braem may probably be Nicolai Nielsen Braem, justisråd, kommitert i Rentekammeret (død 17. des. 1729), son of Nils Madsen i København and Elisabeth Sophie Braem (died abt.1706)?, and brother of Else Margrethe Nilsdatter Braem (1685 København - 1719 Åsnes , Solør, Hedmark) married to Fogd i Østerdalen, Solør og Odalen 1705-44, earlier in prince Wilhelms liberi abt. 1700, Christian Daniel Jensen Juell (2 juni 1679 in Holmen kirke, København - 3 aug 1744 in Bjørneby, Hof, Solør, Hedmark). They had several relatives in the region.

 

'And his relative? Corfitz Gødertsen Braem (Mayor in Helsingør, gesandt in Holland, wrote his itinerary from  the district of  Bergen 30. july - 30. sept 1673 (Norske Magasin II s. 459-88). His father was married to an Anna Bruns in his previous marriage.

 

Additionally, Corfirz' half brother Johan was also married to a Cæcilie Jochumsdatter Brun in his second marriage

Endret Desember 7, 2017 av Christian Arentz

[Celia Summers]

55 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

.

I wonder, is Ecchardina supposed to be interpreted as the name of the babtized child ?

Maybe 'Richardina' (after the mother's father) ?

.

It might be Richardina, but I am not finding anything for that name either.  

[Celia Summers]

20 minutes ago, Christian Arentz said:

Elisabeths goodfather Nicolai Braem may probably be Nicolai Nielsen Braem, justisråd, kommitert i Rentekammeret (død 17. des. 1729), son of Nils Madsen i København and Elisabeth Sophie Braem (died abt.1706)?, and brother of Else Margrethe Nilsdatter Braem (1685 København - 1719 Åsnes , Solør, Hedmark) married to Fogd i Østerdalen, Solør og Odalen 1705-44, earlier in prince Wilhelms liberi abt. 1700, Christian Daniel Jensen Juell (2 juni 1679 in Holmen kirke, København - 3 aug 1744 in Bjørneby, Hof, Solør, Hedmark). They had several relatives in the region.

Thank you for the history on the godparents.  In comparing the different baptisms of the Brun children and the marriage, they all seem to belong to the same family.  Could these godparents help establish a connection to Richard Jacobsen Willumsen and Cecilie Richardstr. Williamsen?

 

[Per Nermo]

20 timer siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

 

Elisabeths goodfather Nicolai Braem may probably be Nicolai Nielsen Braem, justisråd, kommitert i Rentekammeret (død 17. des. 1729), son of Nils Madsen i København and Elisabeth Sophie Braem (died abt.1706)?, and brother of Else Margrethe Nilsdatter Braem (1685 København - 1719 Åsnes , Solør, Hedmark) married to Fogd i Østerdalen, Solør og Odalen 1705-44, earlier in prince Wilhelms liberi abt. 1700, Christian Daniel Jensen Juell (2 juni 1679 in Holmen kirke, København - 3 aug 1744 in Bjørneby, Hof, Solør, Hedmark). They had several relatives in the region.

 

'And his relative? Corfitz Gødertsen Braem (Mayor in Helsingør, gesandt in Holland, wrote his itinerary from  the district of  Bergen 30. july - 30. sept 1673 (Norske Magasin II s. 459-88). His father was married w. Anna Bruns in his previous marriage.

 

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The name Søster (Soster) (Sostrate) [ancient greek, latinized: Sostrata] was not completely uncommon in certain 'higher circles' at the time.

 

The mother of above Nicolai Nielsen Braem and  Else Margethe Braem, Elisabeth Sophie Braem (c1650?-c1706)

was of the same age as (sister of ?) Anna Margrethe Braem (Braëm), born in Helsingør 5 Okt 1652,

first married 5 Mar 1686 in St. Olai (Helsingør) as the 2nd wife to Erasmus Bartholin

who's mother's mother was Søster Ivers[datter] (lat. Sostrata Ivaria), married to dr. mathematic, medicus in Copenhagen, Thomas Fincke (1561-1656).

This (latter) couple had at least 3 granddaughters named Søster (Sostrata) (surnamed Fincke, Fuiren and Worm),

and Erasmus' brother Albert Bartholin also had a daughter named Søster.

 

As far as I can see, above Corfitz Gødertsen Braëm (1639-1688) was a son from the 1st marriage of Copenhagen merchant  Gothard Gothardssøn Braem (1601-1655)

with widow Anna Joachimsdatter Bruun (1608 Samsø - 1642 Helsingør). Gothard G. Braem later married Dorte Christensdatter Davidsen (c1617-1677),

and they had at least four children, among which was above Anna Margrethe Braem (1652-1703), who was the 2nd wife of Erasmus Bartholin (1625-1698).

 

Other children were Johannes Braëm, Gothard Braëm (married Karen Lange) and Christian Braem (married Karen's sister Thale Lange).

Perhaps was Elisabeth Sophie Braem (married to Niels Madsen) also a daughter of Gothard and Dorte ?

.

Endret Desember 8, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Celia Summers]

Thank you Christian Arentz & Per Nermo for the great information. I wonder if Elisabeth Christine Brun's daughter's godparents are in anyway connected to the godparents of the Elisabeth Christine Brun, baptized 20 April 1707, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, or the godparents of her siblings.

 

Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter, Christening: 19 May 1745, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, Father: Henric Schmith, capellan fra Norge
Mother: Elisabeth Kirstine Bruun. 
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118439#156080,26129208, København Sankt Nikolaj Sogn,
Enesteministerialbog, 1735-1746 F, Opslag 255, left side of page, 2nd baptism entry up from bottom of page

I haven't found a baptism for Agnethe Birgitte Henriksdatter Schmidt, (born 4 June 1741-3 Mar 1750).

[Christian Arentz]

On 8.12.2017 at 6:45 PM, Celia Summers said:

Thank you Christian Arentz & Per Nermo for the great information. I wonder if Elisabeth Christine Brun's daughter's godparents are in anyway connected to the godparents of the Elisabeth Christine Brun, baptized 20 April 1707, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, or the godparents of her siblings.

 

Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter, Christening: 19 May 1745, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, Father: Henric Schmith, capellan fra Norge
Mother: Elisabeth Kirstine Bruun. 
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118439#156080,26129208, København Sankt Nikolaj Sogn,
Enesteministerialbog, 1735-1746 F, Opslag 255, left side of page, 2nd baptism entry up from bottom of page

I haven't found a baptism for Agnethe Birgitte Henriksdatter Schmidt, (born 4 June 1741-3 Mar 1750).

 

Hi, Celia, I have tried to make a comparison of most of the godparents cited, and there is quite a lot of familiar names and perhaps common relatives:

 

Eccletia Brun, baptized 28 nov. 1705, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Father Peter Bruun h: kone Marie Williams Schous

Godparents: Etatsraad Lerche, hr. Capit. Trinitatis? Holst, Mr. Adam Christopher von Knuth, frue Grefvinne Raad von Knuthis «baade bar og holt det», Jomfru Elisabeth Sophie v. Knuthis

 

Frue Grefvinne Raad von Knuthis: her name was Søster Corneliusdatter Lerche (14. mars 1658 - aft. 1707), Etatsraad (Christian Corneliussen) Lerche was her halfbrother, and Mr. Adam Christopher von Knuth and Jomfru Elisabeth Sophie v. Knuthis were her children.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Elisabeth Christine Brun, baptized 20 April 1707, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Fathar Peter Bruun h: kone Marie Williams Sohus

Godparents: Raadmand Eloir? Mangor, Renteschr? Nicolai Braem, Kaja Kluigen?, Mad. sal. Matthis Rasmussens «baade bar og holt det», Mademoiselle Rasmussens, Sr.? Catz?

 

Nicolai (Nielsen) Braem was the son of Elisabeth Sophie Braem and the brother of Else Margrethe Nielsdatter Braem (1685 København – bef. 1720 Åsnes i Gudbrandsdalen)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Christopher Pedersen, baptised 6 nov 1708 i Nikolaj kirke, København , parents: Peter Brun og Anne Marie Sohus.

Godparents: Etatsraad (Christian Corneliussen) Lerche, Obl. Lutzau, ....Holst, Raadinde van Knuthen (Søster Corneliusdatter Lerche), and (her daughter) Jomfrue (Elisabeth Sophie) van Knuthen

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter, Christening: 19 may 1745, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, Father: Henric Schmith, capellan fra Norge, Mother: Elisabeth Kirstine Bruun. 

 

Godparents: Hr. Brorson sogneprest ved St. Nicolai kirke, Professor Holm i Canichestrædet, CancellieRaad Finchenhagen paa ...., frue Henricsens JusticeRaad Henricsens hustrue ved gl Strand, og Jomfru Regelsen krigsraad Regelsens dotter ved gl. Strand

 

Nicolai (eller Niels) Brorson was priest in St. Nicolai, Copenhagen 1738-57 (23. juli 1690 i Randerup, - 30. mars 1757), and was married four times: Anna Christine Bruhn; (daughter of Christian Bruhn and Anna Cathrine Stahl), Barbara Agnete Hansen; Charlotte Marie Vogetz and Anna Lauritsdatter Fogh according to Geni. His bror Anders was also married to a Maria Bruun, daughter of Christopher Bruun and Anna Hansdatter Callesen

Endret Desember 10, 2017 av Christian Arentz
Misinterpreted a godfather Lerche

[Per Nermo]

På ‎08‎.‎12‎.‎2017 den 18.45, Celia Summers skrev:

.....

Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter, Christening: 19 May 1745, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Denmark, Father: Henric Schmith, capellan fra Norge
Mother: Elisabeth Kirstine Bruun. 
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118439#156080,26129208, København Sankt Nikolaj Sogn,
Enesteministerialbog, 1735-1746 F, Opslag 255, left side of page, 2nd baptism entry up from bottom of page

I haven't found a baptism for Agnethe Birgitte Henriksdatter Schmidt, (born 4 June 1741-3 Mar 1750).

 

 

Jacob Henriksen Schmidt is allegedly babtized in Vardal 4 Jun 1741.

Is Agnethe Birgitte his twin, then ? (Is she the 5th 'unknown' child, or were there 6 children altogether ?)

.

[Christian Arentz]

20 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

Jacob Henriksen Schmidt is allegedly babtized in Vardal 4 Jun 1741.

Is Agnethe Birgitte his twin, then ? (Is she the 5th 'unknown' child, or were there 6 children altogether ?)

.

 

Dette er vel Jacobs dåp: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603690593

[Per Nermo]

33 minutter siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

.....

Eccletia Brun, baptized 28 nov. 1705, Nikolaj Kirke, København, Father Peter Bruun h: kone Marie Williams Schous

Godparents: Etatsraad Lerche, hr. Capit. Trinitatis? Holst, Mr. Adam Christopher von Knuth, frue Grefvinne Raad von Knuthis «baade bar og holt det», Jomfru Elisabeth Sophie v. Knuthis

 

Frue Grefvinne Raad von Knuthis: her name was Søster Corneliusdatter Lerche (14. mars 1658 - aft. 1707), Etatsraad (Cornelius Pedersen) Lerche was her halfbrother, and Mr. Adam Christopher von Knuth and Jomfru Elisabeth Sophie v. Knuthis were her children.

.....

.

Søster Corneliusdatter Lerche (14. mars 1658 - aft. 1707) seems to be a daugter of Cornelius Pedersen Lerche (1615-1681)

in his 2nd marriage (Madrid 1657) with Anne Kristine Henriksd. Friis (died Oct 1659). Cornelius was married three times (1st with above mentioned Søster Fuiren, ref. #256).

 

You write that 'Etatsraad (Cornelius Pedersen) Lerche was her halfbrother'. This sounds odd, as Søster Corneliusd.'s half brother would rather be a 'Corneliussen' !

.

 

 

 

 

Endret Desember 10, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Per Nermo]

5 minutter siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

 

Dette er vel Jacobs dåp: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603690593

 

 

.

Hvilken dato er denne dåpen ?

.

Endret Desember 10, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Celia Summers]

2 hours ago, Per Nermo said:

 

Jacob Henriksen Schmidt is allegedly babtized in Vardal 4 Jun 1741.

Is Agnethe Birgitte his twin, then ? (Is she the 5th 'unknown' child, or were there 6 children altogether ?)

.

She was listed in her half brother Peder Erlandsen Bruun's probate.  She was listed last, after Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter Schmidt, so I assume she is the youngest and was born in Denmark.

Endret Desember 10, 2017 av Celia Summers

[Christian Arentz]

7 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

.

Søster Corneliusdatter Lerche (14. mars 1658 - aft. 1707) seems to be a daugter of Cornelius Pedersen Lerche (1615-1681)

in his 2nd marriage (Madrid 1657) with Anne Kristine Henriksd. Friis (died Oct 1659). Cornelius was married three times (1st with above mentioned Søster Fuiren, ref. #256).

 

You write that 'Etatsraad (Cornelius Pedersen) Lerche was her halfbrother'. This sounds odd, as Søster Corneliusd.'s half brother would rather be a 'Corneliussen' !

.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, my mistake, the godfathers name is his son, Christian Corneliussen Lerche, etatsråd.

[Per Nermo]

11 minutter siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

 

Sorry, my mistake, the godfathers name is his son, Christian Corneliussen Lerche, etatsråd.

 

 

From which of Cornelius Pedersen Lerche's three marriages was Christian Corneliussen Lerche ?

.

[Christian Arentz]

2 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

From which of Cornelius Pedersen Lerche's three marriages was Christian Corneliussen Lerche ?

.

 

He was from the third. His half sister from the second

[Christian Arentz]

1 hour ago, Per Nermo said:

 

.

Hvilken dato er denne dåpen ?

.

 

Mellom Dom. X Trinit og Dom. XI Trinit 1741

[Per Nermo]

3 timer siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

.....

Nicolai (Nielsen) Braem was the son of Elisabeth Sophie Braem and the brother of Else Margrethe Nielsdatter Braem (1685 København – bef. 1720 Åsnes i Gudbrandsdalen)

.....

Nicolai (eller Niels) Brorson was priest in St. Nicolai, Copenhagen 1738-57 (23. juli 1690 i Randerup, - 30. mars 1757), and was married four times:
Anna Christine Bruhn; (daughter of Christian Bruhn and Anna Cathrine Stahl), Barbara Agnete Hansen; Charlotte Marie Vogetz and Anna Lauritsdatter Fogh according to Geni. His bror Anders was also married to a Maria Bruun, daughter of Christopher Bruun and Anna Hansdatter Callesen

 

 

1. Åsnes is located i Solør, Hedmark, not in Gudbrandsdalen, Oppland.
 

2. Andreas Brorson (1663-1710) seems to be a brother of the father of Nicolai Brorson (1690-1757).
     Accordimng to Geni, Andreas was married to Maria Bruun (died 1685), a sister of Anna Christine Bruhn's father Christian Bruun (c1661-1708).

.

 

Endret Desember 11, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Per Nermo]

3 timer siden, Celia Summers skrev:

 

She was listed in her half brother Peder Erlandsen Bruun's probate.  She was listed last, after Cathrine Marie Henriksdatter Schmidt, so I assume she is the youngest and was born in Denmark.

 

 

Jacob was babtized in 1741 (Vardal), and Cathrine Marie in 1745 (København).

If Agnethe Birgitte is the youngest child, she cannot have been born  4 Jun 1741 (ref. #257).

.

[Christian Arentz]

8 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

1. Åsnes is located i Solør, Hedmark, not in Gudbrandsdalen.

2. Andreas Brorson (1663-1710) seems to a brother of the father of Nicolai Brorson (1690-1757).

 

 

You are right again, the point is that she was married to the Fogd of Østerdalen, Solør og Odalen 1705-44, i prins Wilhelms liberi ca. 1700, Christian Daniel Jensen Juell, and did not live far from there.

 

You are also right, that Adreas Brorson (1663-1710), prest i Amrum 1694-1709 and married to Maria Bruun, was the uncle of Nicolai Brorson (1690-1757), and not his brother (if we should believe Geni). But, I believe, this is not important for our tracing the ancestors of Peter Bru(i)n (Bruun), since I cannot see any family relations between these Bruns

[Christian Arentz]

5 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

 

Jacob was babtized in 1741 (Vardal), and Cathrine Marie in 1745 (København).

If Agnethe Birgitte is the youngest child, she cannot have been born  4 Jun 1741 (ref. #257).

.

 

No, you are right, she is probably born in Nysted-Herridslev, Lolland after 1745, still as the youngest, ref #263. And she is not in the KB of Vardal.

Endret Desember 11, 2017 av Christian Arentz

[Per Nermo]

4 timer siden, Christian Arentz skrev:

.....

Nicolai (eller Niels) Brorson was priest in St. Nicolai, Copenhagen 1738-57 (23. juli 1690 i Randerup, - 30. mars 1757), and was married four times: Anna Christine Bruhn; (daughter of Christian Bruhn and Anna Cathrine Stahl), Barbara Agnete Hansen; Charlotte Marie Vogetz and Anna Lauritsdatter Fogh according to Geni. His bror Anders was also married to a Maria Bruun, daughter of Christopher Bruun and Anna Hansdatter Callesen

 

 

It is of course tempting to assume that above Christopher Christiansen Bruun (c1620?-c1696), Sognepræst, 1645 præst i N. Løgum og Løgumkloster (according to Geni),
married to Anna Hansdatter Callesen (parents to above Maria Bruun and Christian Bruun)
is a close relative (e.g. an uncle) of

• Peter Bruun  (married in Trinitatis Kirke, København, 15 Mar 1702 to Anne Marie (Schous) Richardsdatter Williamsen, b. 1666)  and/or
• Christopher Bruun  (foged in Gudbrandsdalen)  (married to Anne Marie's sister, Cecilie Richardsdatter Williamsen).

.

Endret Desember 11, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Celia Summers]

17 hours ago, Christian Arentz said:

Hi, Celia, I have tried to make a comparison of most of the godparents cited, and there is quite a lot of familiar names and perhaps common relatives:

Thank you for the comparisons and thank you and Per for all the information on the godparents!!! I will try and find more on the Peter Brun family.

Endret Desember 11, 2017 av Celia Summers

[Per Nermo]

På ‎07‎.‎12‎.‎2017 den 23.26, Per Nermo skrev:

.....

As far as I can see, above Corfitz Gødertsen Braëm (1639-1688) was a son from the 1st marriage of Copenhagen merchant  Gothard Gothardssøn Braem (1601-1655)

with widow Anna Joachimsdatter Bruun (1608 Samsø - 1642 Helsingør). Gothard G. Braem later married Dorte Christensdatter Davidsen (c1617-1677),

and they had at least four children, among which was above Anna Margrethe Braem (1652-1703), who was the 2nd wife of Erasmus Bartholin (1625-1698).

 

Other children were Johannes Braëm, Gothard Braëm (married Karen Lange) and Christian Braem (married Karen's sister Thale Lange).

Perhaps was Elisabeth Sophie Braem (married to Niels Madsen) also a daughter of Gothard and Dorte ?

 

.

Anna (Anne) Joachimsdatter Bruun (1608 Samsø - 1642 Helsingør), 1st wife (married in 1637) to Copenhagen merchant  Gothard Gothardssøn Braem (1601-1655),

was a daughter of the king's foged at Samsø, Jochum/Joachim (Jacob) Bruun (c1570?-1627 Samsø) and Dorthe Hansdatter.

Anna's sister Cæcilie (Sidsel) Jochumsdatter Bruun (1605-1641) was 25 Jul 1624 married (as the 2nd wife) to merchant Johan Gothardsen Braem (1595 Hamburg - 1646 Kbh.), who was a brother of Anna's 2nd husband Gothard.

 

(This must be the same Anna Brun that is mentioned in Christian's #253).

.

 

Endret Desember 12, 2017 av Per Nermo

[Christian Arentz]

14 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

.

Anna (Anne) Joachimsdatter Bruun (1608 Samsø - 1642 Helsingør), 1st wife (married in 1637) to Copenhagen merchant  Gothard Gothardssøn Braem (1601-1655),

was a daughter of the king's foged at Samsø, Jochum/Joachim (Jacob) Bruun (c1570?-1627 Samsø) and Dorthe Hansdatter.

Anna's sister Cæcilie (Sidsel) Jochumsdatter Bruun (1605-1641) was 25 Jul 1624 married (as the 2nd wife) to merchant Johan Gothardsen Braem (1595 Hamburg - 1646 Kbh.), who was a brother of Anna's 2nd husband Gothard.

 

 

Ja, her var det søskenbytter ute og går. Johan Gødersen Braem var forøvrig handelsmann København, men også forpakter Norges Kobberværker, og sjef for postvesenet