Looking for my great grandmother

[Arnstein Rønning]

Here is the confirmation in 1900 for Mathilde Kristine. I don't know if this is "our" Ella - probably not?. Hilary says she mentioned Kristine as name for her mother.

 

 Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=268&idx_id=268&uid=ny&idx_side=-71

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20050315031089.jpg

 

 

Endret Februar 5, 2016 av Arnstein Rønning

[Hilary Underwood]

Arnstein and Inger Karin! You both deserve a standing ovation for this! Very impressive indeed. 

 

Yes, Kristrine was mentioned as Ella's mother's name. My cousin Christine was named Christine in the belief that it was a family name.

 

I found the Norwegian DNA listings that points out the HRVI is almost exact to my mother's kit.. Do you think the one mutation that is different is very significant? 

 

Is this the same Malena? Maybe not? I notice the name is spelled different.

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/kf/person/pk00000000198744

 

A lot of this is matching at least with what little information I have. The Spanish armada shipwreck and locals having a story of Spanish ancestry is enchanting. I have wondered if it was a story from Ella's childhood but as it was told it mutated into another story. 

 

Although I am apprehensive, I am hopeful too. Thank you all for helping me.

[Hilary Underwood]

Leif- It could very well be she changed her vitals but on the documents from 1917 and on she seemed to be consistent with her birth date. 

[Arnstein Rønning]

Hilary - mtDNA mutates very, very seldom, but it does from time to time, and you never know WHEN... But I'm very sceptical to this mtDNA coincidence, I must admit, and I will have a closer look.

[Arnstein Rønning]

You have one different mutation from the one from Dverberg, but you have exactly the same mutations with some others from southern parts of Norway, among them the line of Marte Hermansdatter Rud b. 1747 Nord-Odal, Hedmark. This one has taken the full sequence test, and seems to match only one other line - one from Buskerud.

 

If you upgrade to full sequence test, and match those two, your maternal line (mother - mother's mother and so on) could be the cause of all your autosomal matches (at Family Finder) from Hedmark - some with Forest Finn ancestry. But I can't guarantee that you will come much further in solving your mystery by upgrading your mtDNA test  :)

[Hilary Underwood]

Okay, I understand. I think an upgrade can not hurt though. I am interested to know if it does make a difference in solving this.

[Inger Karin Haarbye]

Okay, I understand. I think an upgrade can not hurt though. I am interested to know if it does make a difference in solving this.

It could sure make a difference, but you don't know yet of course. It could stop you from using time on some candidates too. I would have upgraded (well, I ordered full sequence from the start).

[Hilary Underwood]

You are right, Inger Karin. I just purchased full sequence. I am not a betting person but it seems 50 percent chance so we might as well do it and wait to see if it makes much difference :)

[Arnstein Rønning]

I'm glad you did, as I think it will make a difference too, but I would not be the one to push you (it costs money)   :)

 

I can also tell what I found when I took the Full Sequence:

 

I have 6 matches with a genetic distance of 0 (all the mutations are similar to mine).  My maternal line goes all the way back to late 16 hundreds in Trøndelag (papertrail).

 

2 of my matches having roots in Norway - both in Trøndelag (I'm also matching one of them on Family Finder as a 5th - RemoteCousin, but we haven't tried to find out how we are related - yet).

 

The rest (4) are all from Ireland, Scotland and one thinks Wales. My line probably came from Ireland long time ago (with the Vikings?), and spread in Trøndelag.

 

When looking at matches with a genetic distance of 1, 2 and 3, I can clearly see that this is not a mtDNA from Norway, but from GB.

Endret Februar 7, 2016 av Arnstein Rønning

[Leif Johannessen]

I’ll give you the information I have found about the woman Elen Dorthea that I mentioned in # 72: She was born in 1893 and as you can see in farm history at Breivik, Hemnes (# 64), her mother died in 1899 and her father in 1903. Her fathers sister, Anne Gurine Hansdatter, from Skamdalen in Rana, married Hans Olai Erlandsen, in Lødingen, north in the county Nordland, 2. jan.1867: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=10015&idx_id=10015&uid=ny&idx_side=-146

 

In the 1900 census we find them in Stamsund, Lofoten, with the little girl Elen Hansdatter, born in Hemnes: http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste.aspx?ft=1900&knr=1860&kenr=010&bnr=0117&lnr=00

 

Later on she must have moved to Narvik where we find her confirmation in 1908: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=39668&idx_id=39668&uid=ny&idx_side=-29

 

A lot of people moved to Narvik in those days because of construction and opening of a railway, transporting iron ore from Sweden. After the construction period was ended, many of them of course left the area.

 

Elen Dorthea Hansdatter had brothers and a sister who went to USA, and we should expect that she had contact with them, or at least spoke about such a situation. This makes it hard to believe that this is the person you are looking for.

 

Mabel’s father, was he a Norwegian? Elias Jørgensen?

Endret Februar 8, 2016 av Leif Johannessen

[Hilary Underwood]

Thanks Arnstein. Let's hope the upgrade makes some difference! I just did the upgrade on my mother's kit. FtDNA has her sample if they are able to use that we should find out by Wednesday or Thursday. Otherwise they say they will send a new kit.

 

Leif! Thank you for that. This is another interesting possibility. Yes, on my great aunt Mabel's birth certificate it says the father is Eli Jorgensen. I assumed it was short for Elias. It says his birthplace was Maryland,US. I am not sure if that was true. It also says Mabel was child number 2 although I have never heard any story of a first child. I also cannot find a record for Eli and Ella other than that birth. On Ella's marriage certificate to my great grandfather it says she was not married prior to that and that her father's name was Hans Jourgenson. And they were married in the year after Mabel's birth.

[Hilary Underwood]

I don't know what the rules about reviving older threads are but...I revived this one. Forgive me if this is poor etiquette. 

 

I finally got the results of the upgrade to the DNA kit for my mother. Now I'm looking over the results and trying to see if it can help in solving this Ella problem. My mother's haplo is actually W1-T119c. Anyone that is interested in seeing the full sequence let me know. I don't really have any inhibitions about posting it publicly but maybe it's better to keep some things private. 

 

Anyway, thanks again to everyone that tried to help track down my great grandmother before and maybe nudged me a little into getting the full full dna done. I very much appreciate it!

[Arnstein Rønning]

Hi Hilary! Looking at the Norway DNA project, there seems to be 3 other persons who have this result W1-T119C. They are from (their maternal roots are from) Buskerud, Telemark and Vestfold.

 

Have you got someone at the highest tested level (HVR1, HVR2 an Coding Region) with Genetic Distance = 0? Don't write their real name here, only yhe name of their ending maternal line back in time.

[Hilary Underwood]

Hi Arnstein! 

I looked on the DNA project as well as soon as I saw the results had come. There ar two that are almost exact only when it comes to the HRV2 they have 11 groups where my mother only has 10. I am not quite sure what that means. 

 

On the matches with HRV1, HRV2, and coding region 4 matches come up and they are all the distance of 3. All of their ancestral names are names like Lefranc, Oldham, Hagman, and Langner. This leaves me confused. I am having some problems on the FTDNA site tonight however. It seems to be going too slow or will not load the page. Perhaps they are working on it and it will be better tomorrow? 

[Arnstein Rønning]

OK - that's a pity.

 

When you look at only HVR1+HVR2, how many of those matches have taken SMS?

 

Matches with a genetic distance of 3 at this level, are usually so far back in time, that you can forget them. You will have to wait for more Norwegian W1-people taking Full Squence (FMS) - to get some Norwegian matches. Sorry!

[Hilary Underwood]

It is a pity. It was a little disappointing seeing only 3s but it is what it is for now.

 

I would say in looking at the match list for HVR1 and HVR2 that less than half have taken the full sequence testing. It's a waiting game but I'm used to it when it comes to my great grandmother.

 

One more small story my mother remembered hearing was that my great grandmother talked of her family earning money by owning reindeer but her grandfather also was a coffin maker. I don't know if that is more random made up stories or not or if that would be a somewhat truthful clue?