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Peter Alas/Allas - fødd i Grekenland 1883/1888 - til Amerika i 1913 - gift med indianarjenta som før var gift med ein norskamerikanar - kven var han?


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Åsbjørg Susort

Men eg tror dette er den samme som var gift med Amanda og hadde ein bror Harry...

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Lars E. Øyane

Hjarteleg takk til Åsbjørg for svært spennande og imponerande innlegg!

 

Det som er heilt klart, er at me har å gjera med fleire personar som heiter det same, men det som me veit sikkert, utifrå fakta, er:

 

** WW2 draftet syner namnet som Peter Alas med fødselsdatoen 15.3.1886 og ein fødestad som liknar på Arworilis i Grekenland!

 

** Social security record for Peter Alas syner fødselsdatoen 15.3.1883:

 

Age 86
Given Name Peter
Surname Alas
Birth Date 15 Mar 1883
State Wisconsin
Last Place of Residence Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Previous Residence Postal Code 53202
Event Date May 1969

 

** Naturaliseringskortet frå Milwaukee, WI frå 1933 har namnet Peter Adrachtas med fødselsdatoen 15.3.1887 og ein ankomstdato til New York 5.10.1915!

 

No har du, Åsbjørg, finne ein Panagiotis Adraktas som kjem til New York på nemnde dato, 5.10.1915, og han oppgjev ein alder på 32 år med fødestad Agoreleas.

 

Det finst ingen stad i Grekenland som heiter Arworilis (eg har sjekka med grekarar som bur her i nabolaget!), men om me har lite vetta «fantasi», og det lyt ein tydeleg ha når ein arbeikder med grekarar(!), so ser me at det ikkje er so alt for stor forskjell på Arworilis og Agoreleas!  Eller kanskje det skal vera Agorianis??  Alderen stemmer rett nok ikkje heilt, men eg trur at du, Åsbjørg, har finne «rett passasjer»!

 

Det som tydeleg «kompliserer», er denne WW1 draft-soldaten Peter Adraktas som synes vera fødd på same stad som «vår» Panagiotis, men anten ljuger «vår mann» på fødselsdatoen sin, eller me har å gjera med to personar med likt namn som kjem frå same staden!?  Kanskje er det den siste løysingi som er «lykkjelen» her og at «vår» mann sidan endra namnet sitt til Allas (Alas) for å unngå forveksling?

 

Elles er nok dette i alle fall «vår» Peter Adrachtas som i 1920 oppgjev alder 35 (=1884) og utvandringsåret 1915 med bustad i Ladysmith, Rusk Co., WI: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXK-HDN

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand til løysing av denne kjempegåta!  Eg trur, som sagt, me er «i mål», men høyrer gjerne fleire kommentarar!  Mellom anna saknar me vel framleis det nøyaktige namnet på denne byen i Grekenland der Peter kom ifrå!?

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

For the sake of completeness, here is additional proof that the Peter Adrachtas who was naturalized in 1933 is the same as Peter Allis/Allas:

 

The address listed for Peter Adrachtas on the naturalization form is 1334 N. Market St. in Milwaukee. The 1933 city directory for Milwaukee lists Peter Allis (with wife Eliz.) at 1334B N. Market St.  Also living there are a Robert Allis and a William Allis (presumably the sons of Elizabeth; a William Edwards still lives with them in the 1940 census). See https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2469/13269324?pid=1495670714.

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

The 1930 Milwaukee city directory lists both a Peter Adraktas (with wife Amanda), owner of the Princess Restaurant, and Harry Adraktas (a cook - and Peter's brother, per census), as well as a Peter Allis (with wife Eliz.), with a Jessie Allis living at the same address. "Our" Peter is the one married to Elizabeth, and per the 1933 record he had original last name Adrachtas - but he is not the same as the Peter Adraktas married to Amanda in 1930. The "German" in the 1930 census record must have been an error - given that they were living in a boarding house, the information probably came from the landlord (who may have been confused) and not from them.

 

See https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2469/13269324?pid=1495670714&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Oef1&_phstart=successSource#?imageId=14272804

and https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/2469/13269324?pid=1495670714&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Oef1&_phstart=successSource#?imageId=14272808

 

Edited to add: The 1930 city directory is the first one in which "our" Peter Allis (married to Eliz.) appears. Peter Adraktas (married to Amanda and at Princess Restaurant) is already listed in the 1928 city directory.

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

I believe there are three reasons to think that the Peter Adraktas in the 1917 draft registration is not "our" Peter Adrachtas/Allis, but rather the other Peter Adraktas:

 

1) In the 1942 WWII draft registration of "our" Peter Allas, Peter could not sign his name (instead, there was an "X" for "his mark"). But in the 1917 draft registration, that Peter Adraktas did sign his name.

 

2) The occupation given for Peter Adraktas in 1917 is "waiter". This is consistent for someone who is a restaurant owner/worker in 1930, rather than someone who becomes a street construction laborer.

 

3) The birthdate given in 1917 is 15 November, while all records for "our" Peter Allis/Allas give 15 March as the birthdate.

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-918M-93HF?i=4389&cc=1968530

Here is the WWI draft registration card for the Nicholas Mouzakiotis (born 1890) who accompanied "our" Panagiotis Adraktas in 1915. Nicholas's birthplace in this registration is listed as "Agorelitsa", which is very likely the same as the "Agorelissa" in the 1915 passenger list (at least that is how I read the passenger list, even though familysearch.org transcribes it as "Agoreleas").

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Lars E. Øyane

Thank you very much, Carl-Henry, for new contributions to this debate!

 

Another point which I believe may be of importance in this matter, is the fact that the «other» Peter had a WW1 draft at all issued, and it is my understanding that only US natives or naturalized citizens were allowed to enlist?  Or am I wrong?

 

Still the birthplace of that WW1 draft for the presumed «other» Peter shows strong similarities with what we have on «our» Peter!

 

However, if I am not mistaken, this must be the WW2 draft for the «other» Peter's brother Harry, and here we can identify a completely different birthplace in Greece: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6WV3-GDT

 

As a conclusion I feel we can say that «our» Panagiotis Adrachtas alias Peter Allas was definitely born Mar. 15, 1883 and emigrated in 1915.  The only remaining question regards his exact place of birth or origin in Greece:

 

* In the WW2 draft from 1942 it looks like Anvorilis or Arworilis

 

* In the passenger record from 1915 it looks like Agorelissa - written in fact 4 times on the same page!

 

* Peter's copassenger from the same place in Greece, Nikolas Mouziakiotis, had his intention of naturalization typed in 1923, and here it clearly says Agorelicha!

 

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61196/101562653_00833?pid=2669027&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D61196%26h%3D2669027%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DNzx10071%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Nzx10071&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

Just as I was about to send this off, I notice that you, Carl-Henry, had the same thought as I did, look for Peter's copassenger, but you found  a WW1 draft even though he was not yet naturalized...?

 

Thanks again for your great assistance trying to identify Peter's birth place in Greece!

Edited by Lars E. Øyane
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Carl-Henry Geschwind

Looks like in 1917 they were registering aliens as well as citizens (and those who had declared an intention to become citizens) - I guess to doublecheck that they got everyone who was trying to escape being drafted by claiming to be an alien.

 

From a Google search, I see there is a Facebook page for an Agorelitsa in Messenia province in Greece (near Kalamata  on the southern end of the Peloponnese), but I haven't been able to find the village on Google Maps. There also appears to have been a "Battle of Agorelitsa" in World War II, during which Greek resistance fighters killed 180 German occupiers - but again, I have not been able to find the location of this. Lars, perhaps your Greek friend will be able to find this village?

 

Also, in case anyone has access to Greek records, the 1915 passenger list says that Panagiotis's father's name was Leonidas - so can we find a Leonidas Adraktas in Agorelitsa, Greece?

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Lars E. Øyane

Thank you very much, Carl-Henry, for your latest message.  The village of Agorélitsa (Αγορέλιτσα) has then been identified.  I cannot either find it in any map, but I will ask my Greek firends and I am sure we'll get the answer!

 

By the way, I didn't spot his father's name, Leonidas, but his mother's name is given, although I am unable to interpret it...

 

Soleis er dette problemet endeleg løyst, og eg takkar på ny for framifrå bistand for å finna fram til denne løysingi!

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

Lars, you are right, Leonidas is the father of Nicolaos, not of Panagiotis. I cannot read Panagiotis's mother's name, either.

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Åsbjørg Susort

He had a brother named Leonidas, living in 715 Claybourn str, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 1907...?

Name: Panagiotis Adractas
Arrival date: 20 Aug 1907
Birth Date: abt 1887
Birth Location Other: agorelitsa
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Greek
Port of Departure: Patras, Greece
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Gerty

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/7488/NYT715_969-0145?pid=4014242345&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7488%26h%3D4014242345%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DtuC2817%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26requr%3D281479271972864%26ur%3D262144%26lang%3Den-US&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=tuC2817&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

Agorélitsa might be located between Chora (Χώρα) and Ampelofito (Αμπελόφυτο) in/near Nestor, Messinia according a map I found…

https://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-1190923&fid=2179&c=greece

 

 

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

I don't read Greek, but it appears from the Greek Wikipedia article on Chora, which has a section on the 1944 Battle of Agorelitsa, that Agorelitsa is an alternate name for Ampelofito: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Χώρα_Μεσσηνίας#19_Ιουλίου_1944:_Μάχη_της_Χώρας_–_Αγορελίτσας

The name Agorelitsa or Agorelitza is also mentioned in the Greek Wikipedia article on Ampelofito: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αμπελόφυτο_Μεσσηνίας

 

Edited to add: Running that last article through Google Translate, I see that Agorelitsa is the former name of the village, which was renamed to Ampelophyton in 1930.

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Åsbjørg Susort
2 timer siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

it is my understanding that only US natives or naturalized citizens were allowed to enlist

Tror også "ikke-amerikanere" kunne verve seg, ref. annet emne i dag om Jon Jonsen Brække som fallt i Frankrke 1918.

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dimitrios deligiannis
Hello, I am from Agorelitsa, current name ampelofyto. My name is dimitrios deligiannis, those you say may be my relatives! How can I help you; the mail is d.deligiannis1969@gmail.com
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dimitrios deligiannis
On 5/28/2018 at 6:04 PM, Carl-Henry Geschwind said:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-918M-93HF?i=4389&cc=1968530

Here is the WWI draft registration card for the Nicholas Mouzakiotis (born 1890) who accompanied "our" Panagiotis Adraktas in 1915. Nicholas's birthplace in this registration is listed as "Agorelitsa", which is very likely the same as the "Agorelissa" in the 1915 passenger list (at least that is how I read the passenger list, even though familysearch.org transcribes it as "Agoreleas").

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Hello, I am from Agorelitsa, current name ampelofyto. My name is dimitrios deligiannis, those you say may be my relatives! How can I help you; the mail is d.deligiannis1969@gmail.com
 
On 5/28/2018 at 6:46 PM, Lars E. Øyane said:

Thank you very much, Carl-Henry, for your latest message.  The village of Agorélitsa (Αγορέλιτσα) has then been identified.  I cannot either find it in any map, but I will ask my Greek firends and I am sure we'll get the answer!

 

By the way, I didn't spot his father's name, Leonidas, but his mother's name is given, although I am unable to interpret it...

 

Soleis er dette problemet endeleg løyst, og eg takkar på ny for framifrå bistand for å finna fram til denne løysingi!

 

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Lars E. Øyane

Innlegg #42:

 

Thank you Dimitrios for writing.  Maybe you are related to the Allas family?

 

Here is my text about this family to be included in my manuscript (I got assistance from the Greek Embassy in Oslo to get the name spellings correct!):

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

John Henry Robidou, f. i Stearns Co., Minn. 11.5.1875, d. i Bismarck, N.D. 10.5.1938.  John gifte seg første gongen i Mandan, N.D. 25.10.1903 med Elizabeth Cecilia Morin.  Ho var f. i Valley Co., Mont. 5.7.1887 og d. i Wauwatosa, Wis. 27.5.1960.  Elizabeth var indianar og flytte i 1910 frå mann sin.  Dei vart skilde, og ho gifte seg 16.2.1914 att i North Dakota med William Paul Wing, i North Dakota kjend som William Paul Edwards, f. i Franklin Co., Ind. 30.8.1885.  Han d. i Los Angeles, Cal. 16.11.1963.  William var jarnbanearbeidar og sidan kòlgruvearbeidar («railroad brakeman and a coal miner»), og han og Elizabeth budde i Maza, Towner Co., N.D. og i Burlington, Ward Co., N.D., men vart skilde kring 1925.  William flytte sidan til Anaheim., Orange Co., Cal. der han gifte seg att og arbeidde som mekanikar («mechanic»).  Elizabeth gifte seg sidan att tredje gongen i Minot, N.D. 23.7.1927 med Panagiotis Adrachtas (Παναγιώτης Αδραχτάς) frå Agorélitsa, Messinia (Αγορέλιτσα, Μεσσηνία) i Hellas, i Amerika kjend som Peter Allas.  Han var f. i Agorélitsa (Αγορέλιτσα), Hellas 15.3.1883, men utvandra til Amerika i 1915 og d. i Milwaukee, Wis. 8.5.1969.  Peter budde ei tid i Ladysmith, Rusk Co., Wis., men han og Elizabeth busette seg i Milwaukee, Milwaukee Co., Wis. der Peter ei tid livnærte seg som møbelsnikkar («furniture factory worker») og sidan som sementarbeidar («cement mixer»).  John Robidou gifte seg 26.7.1915 att i Bismarck, N.D. med Flora Ella Harriman, f. i Hancock Co., Me. 15.10.1875.  Ho d. i Bismarck, N.D. 18.5.1932.  John farma i mange år i Missouri township, Burleigh Co., N.D., men vart sidan kommunal oppsynsmann («caretaker of a park») og busette seg då i Bismarck, Burleigh Co., N.D.  Flora Harriman hadde vore sirkusartist («circus artist»).  John fekk tre born, som alle var frå første ekteskapet, men me kan leggja til at første kona Elizabeth òg fekk sju born med andre mann sin.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Peter's wife was an Indian girl - an interesting family...

 

Very sincerely yours,

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dimitrios deligiannis
On 6/1/2021 at 8:57 PM, Lars E. Øyane said:

Innlegg #42:

 

Thank you Dimitrios for writing.  Maybe you are related to the Allas family?

 

Here is my text about this family to be included in my manuscript (I got assistance from the Greek Embassy in Oslo to get the name spellings correct!):

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

John Henry Robidou, f. i Stearns Co., Minn. 11.5.1875, d. i Bismarck, N.D. 10.5.1938.  John gifte seg første gongen i Mandan, N.D. 25.10.1903 med Elizabeth Cecilia Morin.  Ho var f. i Valley Co., Mont. 5.7.1887 og d. i Wauwatosa, Wis. 27.5.1960.  Elizabeth var indianar og flytte i 1910 frå mann sin.  Dei vart skilde, og ho gifte seg 16.2.1914 att i North Dakota med William Paul Wing, i North Dakota kjend som William Paul Edwards, f. i Franklin Co., Ind. 30.8.1885.  Han d. i Los Angeles, Cal. 16.11.1963.  William var jarnbanearbeidar og sidan kòlgruvearbeidar («railroad brakeman and a coal miner»), og han og Elizabeth budde i Maza, Towner Co., N.D. og i Burlington, Ward Co., N.D., men vart skilde kring 1925.  William flytte sidan til Anaheim., Orange Co., Cal. der han gifte seg att og arbeidde som mekanikar («mechanic»).  Elizabeth gifte seg sidan att tredje gongen i Minot, N.D. 23.7.1927 med Panagiotis Adrachtas (Παναγιώτης Αδραχτάς) frå Agorélitsa, Messinia (Αγορέλιτσα, Μεσσηνία) i Hellas, i Amerika kjend som Peter Allas.  Han var f. i Agorélitsa (Αγορέλιτσα), Hellas 15.3.1883, men utvandra til Amerika i 1915 og d. i Milwaukee, Wis. 8.5.1969.  Peter budde ei tid i Ladysmith, Rusk Co., Wis., men han og Elizabeth busette seg i Milwaukee, Milwaukee Co., Wis. der Peter ei tid livnærte seg som møbelsnikkar («furniture factory worker») og sidan som sementarbeidar («cement mixer»).  John Robidou gifte seg 26.7.1915 att i Bismarck, N.D. med Flora Ella Harriman, f. i Hancock Co., Me. 15.10.1875.  Ho d. i Bismarck, N.D. 18.5.1932.  John farma i mange år i Missouri township, Burleigh Co., N.D., men vart sidan kommunal oppsynsmann («caretaker of a park») og busette seg då i Bismarck, Burleigh Co., N.D.  Flora Harriman hadde vore sirkusartist («circus artist»).  John fekk tre born, som alle var frå første ekteskapet, men me kan leggja til at første kona Elizabeth òg fekk sju born med andre mann sin.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Peter's wife was an Indian girl - an interesting family...

 

Very sincerely yours,

Good morning,

I know which family you are talking about. In the agorelitsa (vineyard) is almost half the village with this surname, but I asked an uncle of mine, with the surname adraktas, born in 1923, and he knows who he is talking about. Write to me directly in the email for what you want to tell you. d.deligiannis1969@gmail.com
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Lars E. Øyane

Innlegg #44:

 

Thank you very much, Dimitrios for writing again and also for several direct messages.

 

The reason for my interest in Panagiotis Adrachtas alias Peter Allas cmes from the fact that he was married to a girl who had formerly been married to a relative of mine, John Henry Robidou.  His family as well as mine, came from the County of Luster (Luster kommune) in Sogn, Western Norway, and I am in the process of writing a biography of the County's population from the 1600's Middle Age up until today, also including emigrants to the United States.

 

Unfortunately, I have no additional information about Panagiotis (Παναγιώτης) other than what has been discussed in this subject at the Digital Archives.  I don't even know the names of his parents, but I can add that Peter and Elizabeth are buried side-by-side in the Pinelawn Memorial Park cemetery in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  There was a big Greek community in the neighborhood where they lived.  They had no children together, but she had many children by her former two husbands.  I talked to one of her granddaughters in Oregon about 30 years ago.  She told me that her grandmother Elizabeth, a fullblooded Indian, had applied for a renewal of her membership in her Indian clan after she had been excluded due to her marriage  to a «White» man!  However, her own brother refused her this since she had «betraded» her folk!  But in Panagiotis she found a «good» man who loved her and cared for her 100%!

 

Very sincerely yours,

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dimitrios deligiannis
On 6/16/2021 at 11:21 PM, Lars E. Øyane said:

Innlegg #44:

 

Thank you very much, Dimitrios for writing again and also for several direct messages.

 

The reason for my interest in Panagiotis Adrachtas alias Peter Allas cmes from the fact that he was married to a girl who had formerly been married to a relative of mine, John Henry Robidou.  His family as well as mine, came from the County of Luster (Luster kommune) in Sogn, Western Norway, and I am in the process of writing a biography of the County's population from the 1600's Middle Age up until today, also including emigrants to the United States.

 

Unfortunately, I have no additional information about Panagiotis (Παναγιώτης) other than what has been discussed in this subject at the Digital Archives.  I don't even know the names of his parents, but I can add that Peter and Elizabeth are buried side-by-side in the Pinelawn Memorial Park cemetery in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  There was a big Greek community in the neighborhood where they lived.  They had no children together, but she had many children by her former two husbands.  I talked to one of her granddaughters in Oregon about 30 years ago.  She told me that her grandmother Elizabeth, a fullblooded Indian, had applied for a renewal of her membership in her Indian clan after she had been excluded due to her marriage  to a «White» man!  However, her own brother refused her this since she had «betraded» her folk!  But in Panagiotis she found a «good» man who loved her and cared for her 100%!

 

Very sincerely yours,

On 6/16/2021 at 11:21 PM, Lars E. Øyane said:

Innlegg #44:

 

Thank you very much, Dimitrios for writing again and also for several direct messages.

 

The reason for my interest in Panagiotis Adrachtas alias Peter Allas cmes from the fact that he was married to a girl who had formerly been married to a relative of mine, John Henry Robidou.  His family as well as mine, came from the County of Luster (Luster kommune) in Sogn, Western Norway, and I am in the process of writing a biography of the County's population from the 1600's Middle Age up until today, also including emigrants to the United States.

 

Unfortunately, I have no additional information about Panagiotis (Παναγιώτης) other than what has been discussed in this subject at the Digital Archives.  I don't even know the names of his parents, but I can add that Peter and Elizabeth are buried side-by-side in the Pinelawn Memorial Park cemetery in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  There was a big Greek community in the neighborhood where they lived.  They had no children together, but she had many children by her former two husbands.  I talked to one of her granddaughters in Oregon about 30 years ago.  She told me that her grandmother Elizabeth, a fullblooded Indian, had applied for a renewal of her membership in her Indian clan after she had been excluded due to her marriage  to a «White» man!  However, her own brother refused her this since she had «betraded» her folk!  But in Panagiotis she found a «good» man who loved her and cared for her 100%!

 

Very sincerely yours,

 

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dimitrios deligiannis
Just now, dimitrios deligiannis said:

 

Dear Lars, I finally have good news for your research! The Panagiotis adraktaa you are looking for was the brother of my grand-grandmother, Despina. he left agorelitsa because he was not allowed to marry the girl he loved! This was the reason why he never contacted his family in Greece from the moment he arrived in America. no one knows what happened !! now thanks to your research they learned! had a sister, my grand-grandmother Despina. and had brothers,Anastasios, George, Theodoros and Kostas. his father was called Dimitris. if you have a photo of him from America I would gladly accept it !!
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Lars E. Øyane

Innlegg #47:

 

Thank you very much, Dimitrios, for your latest message!  It sure is a small world, isn't it?  There you see how love can determine a whole life destiny!  I have seen several cases like that!  So the little Indian girl Elizabeth and her children got all of Παναγιώτης' love!

 

Unfortunately, I have never seen a picture of Παναγιώτης, but possibly there may still exist pictures among the grandchildren of Elizabeth's.  I shall see what I can do about it!

 

Now, if YOU could give me the full names of Παναγιώτης' father and mother, with names written in our Latin alphabet as well as in Greek, I would be glad to include these in my biography!  And also, what was Dimitris' profession/occupation?

 

Thanks again for your interest!

 

Very sincerely yours,

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