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Frank McGuire

Norwegian surnames

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Frank McGuire

I am trying to trace a person who continually uses the 'dr' on her surname and not 'sen', and want to know if that has any special reason.

Karen Kirstine, who was married at Stokke in 1822 to John Halvorsen, gave her surname as Isaachsen, rather than Isaachdr. She  had 6 children at Holt between 1823 and 1835, and for the  1st, 2nd & 6th she gave her surname as Halvorsen, and for the other 3 she gave isaachsen. Is there some reason why she always uses 'sen' as her surname rather than 'datter'?

  I know they are all the same family, as they are together in the 1832 census for Naess Jernverk, where she is also named Halvorsen, the same as her husband John Halvorsen.  It may have been that she uses her husband's surname, but why sometimes use isaachsen instead of isaachsdr?T

I cannot find a birth record of Karen Kirstine daughter of Isaac for the relevant period, and therefore ask if he use of 'sen' in he surname may be some clue to her origin.

Regards

Frank

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Trude Nilsen

Please put in some links to the censcus and the other information you refere to. 

Trude N

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Ann-Mary Engum

 

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Frank McGuire

The links asked for are-

-1882 marriage- as attached

- 1832 census- file:///C:/Users/test/Downloads/Folketelling_for_Nes_Verk_1832%20(1).pdf

- The  births at Holt are-

1. Halvor Christian 19 Jul 1823, page 30

2. Ingeborg Sophie  23 May 1825, page 51

3.Jacob Aal 27 Jul 1828 P73

4. Louisa Andrea 21 oct 1830 P 98

5. Christiane Kirstine 25 Jan 1833 P115

6. Karen Kirtstine 27 Sept 1835 P13

 

Frank

1822 Halversen marriage2.jpg

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Trude Nilsen
11 timer siden, Frank McGuire skrev:

- The  births at Holt are-

1. Halvor Christian 19 Jul 1823, page 30

2. Ingeborg Sophie  23 May 1825, page 51

3.Jacob Aal 27 Jul 1828 P73

4. Louisa Andrea 21 oct 1830 P 98

5. Christiane Kirstine 25 Jan 1833 P115

6. Karen Kirtstine 27 Sept 1835 P13

 

For other helpers in this forum:

- birth of Halvor Christian, no 44   https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/811/5023/25

- birth of Ingeborg Sophie, no 54  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/811/5023/46

- birth of Jacob Aal, no 80  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/811/5023/68

- birth of Louisa Andrea, no 12  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/811/5023/93

- birth of Christiane Kristine, no 8  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/811/5023/110

The 1822 - marriage, no 34  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8215/40499/17

 

Trude N

 

Endret av Trude Nilsen

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Tove D. Johansen

On the 1801 census for Stokke parish are living at Melsomgaard: Anders Olsen (30) and his wife Berthe Maria Knudsdatter (33) with two children: Marcus (4) and Karen Kirstine (2)

Anders Olsen's occupation is miller.

So this is then Karen Kirstine ANDERSDATTER

But I doubt this can be the right Karen Kirstine.

Endret av Tove D. Johansen

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

Generally speaking, the transition to sen-surnames first took place in the cities and among families that where not farmers. Karen Kristines title Jomfrue, and not Pige, indicates her father was a man who made his living from an occupation other than farming. From the circumstances, that is a wedding at home and her title, might explain why she used the surname Isachsen and not Isaksdtr. Because of her fathers position. What we see in this period is often that a farm name is used as surname, which should have been Melsom in this case. But this decision was made by the family father, and obviously they chose Isachsen. But I will study your questions more closely from now on, and see if there is some other possible explanation.

Endret av Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

Her er familen på Nes Jernverk 1832

image.thumb.png.04e4d4dccf7b947409520b33b5ddd9b0.png

Hentet fra

image.png.8c7b63d3eb3a519c396643ad87a961dd.png

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Tove D. Johansen

Have found that John Halvorsen (who was a central person at Nes iron works) was married two times.

First marriage was to Karen Kirstine Jacobsdatter who died in 1833 and second marriage was to Jacobine Marie Kjær in 1838.

Will try to check some more.

His title at Nes jernverk was fabrikkmester.

 

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Tove D. Johansen

Hope this link to Holt parish records  -  second marriage of John (Jon) Halvorsen - works

kb20060131040799

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Ann-Mary Engum

Slettet

Endret av Ann-Mary Engum

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Trude Nilsen

 

 

12 timer siden, Frank McGuire skrev:

6. Karen Kirtstine 27 Sept 1835 P13

Her mother died in 1833?


 
Endret av Trude Nilsen

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Trude Nilsen
37 minutter siden, Tove D. Johansen skrev:

First marriage was to Karen Kirstine Jacobsdatter who died in 1833

?? 

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Tove D. Johansen

I am trying to find her burial. It cannot  have been in 1833. 

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

There are several candidates for who Karen Kristine actually was. Her fathers christian name was perhaps Isach, but possibly his surname was Isachsen. So, I suggest let's examine each and every one of the women whom it might have been. Sometimes the priest elevated the bride somehow, by adding the prefix Jomfrue and using the modern version Isachsen, so that she would equal her groomes status. At Moslum there were mills and a manor house. It's not unlikely that Karen father worked at one of the mills, and his daughter as a servant at the main house. This way she became aquainted with a guest: her future husband. You choose which Karen you want the forum to investigate first, you might make a separate posting for each Karen. Please provide links and tell us what you already know.

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

Trude Nilsen, congratulations

image.thumb.png.72b3af9c1a4ba262a39ed6ffb3ab5920.png Halvorsen 40 7!2

You discovered the correct burial post, it says 29 oct / 5 nov hustru Karen Isaksdtr Halvorsen 40 1/2 (år) homeplace Næsverk. So now we know for certain her fathers christian name was Isach.

Endret av Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

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Trude Nilsen
11 timer siden, Trude Nilsen skrev:

6. Karen Kirtstine 27 Sept 1835 P13

 

...and then the father named his dauther, Karen Kristine, after his  deceased wife. 

Is this the correct Karen Kristine??  no 26. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/812/5034/5

 

 

 

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Tove D. Johansen

And I see that his wife no. 2 Jacobine Kjær was a godparent (fadder) to the daughter.

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Tove D. Johansen

The owner of Melsom farm in Stokke Elias Winther Jørgensen was born in Skien and he was the cousin of the three brothers Jacob, Jørgen and Niels Aall.

The Aall brothers grew up in Porsgrunn.

(Porsgrunn and Skien are very close)

 

Endret av Tove D. Johansen

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

The Karen Kirstine Isaksdtr in Porsgrunn was baptized 1792

image.png.e4e609df1e340ca8c918d5e1d104bdfd.png

and is probably too old age 43 in 1835 to give birth.

 

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Else B. Rustad
3 minutter siden, Astrid Kaardal Halleraker skrev:

The Karen Kirstine Isaksdtr in Porsgrunn was baptized 1792

and is probably too old age 43 in 1835 to give birth.

 

??

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Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

Ja, fordi det står i begravelsesoppføringen at hun døde 40 1/2 år gml 1835. Kalkulatoren i mitt slektsprogram har beregnet hennes fødselsdag til 29. apr 1795. Mens du er på linjen, har du hug til å tyde denne dåpen:

 

Here is another candidate which might be worthwhile investigating closer. Karen Kirstine Olsdtr baptized 16th of August 1795. With unmarried mother Anne Larsdtr.

image.png.6f72c7b13cc9e25ad5e74fb594f5f947.png

Bamle parish Telemark, this can be an adoption case. The landlords name is Isak, Anne Larsdtr lived in the household 1801, single mother with daughter.

 

https://digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058306001250

 

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