Norwegian surnames

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

Konfirmasjon no 39

SAKO, Bamble kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. I 2, 1775-1814, s. 352-353
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061201010442

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

Kanskje denne Karen Kirstine ble viet 01. juli 1821 i Langesund, samme sogn som konfirmasjon. Kilde FS

 

Skannede KB er her https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb/browse?counties[]=08&parishes[]=0814L&start_year=1800&end_year=1850&text=

men jeg klarer ikke å finne oppføringen.

[Trude Nilsen]

25 minutter siden, Astrid Kaardal Halleraker skrev:

men jeg klarer ikke å finne oppføringen.

I believe this is the one you (Astrid K. H) are looking for: right side - no 5    https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7831/83070/3

If it is the right girl - I do not know.....

 

 

 

Endret Desember 20, 2017 av Trude Nilsen

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

Da er kandidaten fra Langesund Bamle ikke riktig Karen Kirstine, australieren (trådstarter) har dag når det er natt her. Jeg syns denne nøtten er litt verre enn forventet.

[Frank McGuire]

Wow- where do i start. i have just got up this morning and found so much information.

 

The  last post, from Astrid, looks to be very promising. Is it at Bamble?    When Karen Kirstine gave her residence  at her 1822 marriage as Melsom, does that mean she was born there, or only that she lived there at the time of marriage?   If it only means that she then lived there, it could support the Bamble birth option.

 

I couldnt open the links to Karen Kirstine's death, but I have now found it, thank you.

 

I also could not open the link  for John Halvorsen's 2nd marriage.  I will keep trying. What was the date and where was it? 

 

I have several possibilities of Karen Kirstine's birth in and near 1795, some at Stokke, but all to the wrong father.  I will concentrate for now at least, on the Bamble suiggestion.

 

 

Thank you everyone for all this information, that I am trying to absorb.

 

[Else B. Rustad]

2 timer siden, Astrid Kaardal Halleraker skrev:

Ja, fordi det står i begravelsesoppføringen at hun døde 40 1/2 år gml 1835. Kalkulatoren i mitt slektsprogram har beregnet hennes fødselsdag til 29. apr 1795. Mens du er på linjen, har du hug til å tyde denne dåpen:

 

 

 

 

Efter Kirke Tienesten Døbt 2de Uægte Børn kaldet Karen Kirstine og Anne Barbro. - Forældre: Pigen Anne Larsdtr. tilholdende paa Wissestad. Til Barne Fader blev udlagt Ungkarl Ole Olsen fra Stoche Sogn ved Tønsberg. - Faddere: Alv Hansen Wissestads Kone Karen Throns Datter og Anders Andersen Busterøds Kone Marthe Nielsdtr., Pigerne Ingeborg Hansdtr. og Anne Marie Isaachsdtr., begge fra Wissestad, Lars Christensen Wissestad, Thron Christensen Rønholdt, Lars Gullichsen og Lars Pedersen Glittum, Ole Evensen Dahl og Jørgen Ellevsen Gongenrønningen.

 

Det jeg reagerte på ved innlegget ditt, var at du mente at en kvinne på 43 år var for gammel til å føde barn. Det er ikke riktig.

[Even Stormoen]

37 minutter siden, Else B. Rustad skrev:

 

 

<snippet nok en eksellent tydning fra Else>  . . . Det jeg reagerte på ved innlegget ditt, var at du mente at en kvinne på 43 år var for gammel til å føde barn. Det er ikke riktig.

 

Har ‹spionért› litt på denne tråden, og må bare gi min tilslutning til Else – reagerte også på det jeg oppfattet som et utsagn om at kvinner på 43 ikke var/er(?) i stand til å unnfange.

Men mitt ‹bidrag› er selvsagt fullstendig uproduktivt i forhold til trådens tema. Og ingen intensjon om ‹trådkidnapping›. Så se bort fra denne parentesen. 

Keep up the good work, I will keep on lurking . . . :-)
 

Endret Desember 20, 2017 av Even Stormoen
Typo

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

The twins, Karen Kristine and Birthe Cathrine  from census 1801 in Østre Porsgrunn, parents Isach Hansen and Anne Solvesdtr., confirmation i 1807 in Østre Porsgrunn church.

SAKO, Porsgrunn kirkebøker , F/Fa/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. 2, 1764-1814, s. 300-301
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061206010705

 

 

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

From Solumslekt.org Karen Kirstine Isachsdatter:

 

https://www.solumslekt.org/slekta/famark.php?person=6661

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Jon Halvorsen born in Holt, Aust Agder in 1793:

SAK, Holt sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Ministerialbok nr. A 3, 1765-1798, s. 162-163
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070601330637

 

 

 

[Frank McGuire]

I have translated Even's post about  Karen kirstine Olsdr, using an online translation. Does than mean that Ole Olsen was named as the father?  Also, where do the girls 

 Ingeborg Hansdtr. and Anne Marie Isaacsdr fit in?

I note that there are six families at Rosland, Bamble, namely-

1.       Isaac Gregersen 52 farmer, & his family (including Ann Isaacsdr 20)

2.       Sophie Olsdr 47, & her children

3.       Isaac Abrahamsen 36, farmer  & wife & children

4.       Peder Andersen 46, & his wife and family

5.       Jorgan Asaldsen 54, houseman with land, his wife  Mallene Asgoutsdr, son Halvor Jorgensen aged 23, and Anne Larsen 30, girl, unmarried & Karen Kirstine Olsdr 6 (her loose child)

6.       Ole Gundersen 36, & wife & child

The 5th family includes Karen Kirsteine Olsdr & her 30 year old mother, and the 23 year old son of that family, whose name is Halvor. Is this a coincidence or could Karen's  later use of the name Halvorsen relate to him being her step-father? It doesnt explain the Isaacsen. There are two Isaacs at Rosland. Could Karen have adopted  this name as having a local status as suggested by Astrid?

 

I have also found the 2nd marriage record, thank you.

 

I will send a list of the possibles that I have for Karen kKrstine.

 

[Frank McGuire]

Possibilities for birth of Karen Kirstine isaacsen

1. 6/11/1792 at Porsgrunn, to Isaac Hansen & Karen Kirstine Johannesdr (probably too early)

-2. 20/8/1797 at Gjerpen to Isaac Andersen (age tto late?)

3. Petro Kirsten baptised at Sandar near Stokke) 25/12/1795 to Isaac Christen Waale & Helbvig Kirsten Bendtsdr. Strangely, the 1801 census for Sandar is-  Petro & Kirstine , age 6., so I dont know if that is an error or the baptism record is an error.

4. -age 2, to Anders olsen & Berthe Marie Knudsr (at Melsom) born 1799 (too late)

5 -age 5 to Corneius Madsen & Anne Catrine Walberg, born 15 Nov 1795 Stokke  (age right, but no Isaac)

6 -age 7 to Kassemir Hals & Joachimine Nygaard born 15 mar 1792 Stokke (too early)

7. K b Sem, 28/9/1795 Iver Henrichsen & Mary Hansdr P64 (age right, no Isaac)

8. Notteroy,6/12/1795  Christian Nielsen & Inngeborg Pedersd (age right, no Isaac)

9  Marthe Kirstine b Notteroy 4/10/1795- Isaac Jacobsen (Sparradrin) & Margrethe Halvorsdr ((name wrong)

10  b Notteroy 7/4/1793 Christen Sorensen & Anne Christophersdr (age right, no Isaac)

11.  b Andebu 30/11/1794 Hans Gulbrandsen & Mari Laersdr (age right, no Isaac)

12. 16th of August 1795 , Anne Larsdr & (Ole Olsen?) at Bamble. (age right, location doubtful, Isaac unclear)

 

i have checked baptisms from 1792 to 1796 at Stokke, Sem, Notteriy, Andebu, Sandar, & Tonsberg.

 

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

8 timer siden, Frank McGuire skrev:

I will concentrate for now at least, on the Bamble suiggestion.

Unfortunenately this Karen Kirstine was married 1821 in Bamle; it's not her.

[Tove D. Johansen]

I think we should not rule out the Karen Kirstine from Porsgrunn.

The Aalls - and also Elias Winther Jørgensen - have strong ties to Porsgrunn. Also at the marriage she is titled "Jomfrue" and that indicates she comes from a family of the upper class in society.  Also the fact that they were "married in the house with royal approval" indicates upper class people.

 

Endret Desember 21, 2017 av Tove D. Johansen

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

McGuire wrote:

"When Karen Kirstine gave her residence  at her 1822 marriage as Melsom, does that mean she was born there, or only that she lived there at the time of marriage? "

As a rule, marriage takes place in the brides parish, in the church she belonges to.

 

Now, it seems the wedding ceremony was in Melsom main building, that

is Elias Winter Jørgensens home, see below.

Regarding Melsom where Karen Kirstine was married. A summary in english.

 

Source: Stokke Bygdebok III
only available from Norwegian IP-addresses

https://www.nb.no/items/URN:NBN:no-nb_digibok_2015042029003

Today Melsom is an agricultural college, so you understand it's a large
property.

 

"Melsom" from page 55
The landlord from 1797 to 1827 was Elias Winter Jørgensen.
Melsom was not a typical Norwegian village but more like
an English country house with upstairs and downstairs household.
All the residents in this small village in the bay rented their
accommodations from the landlord. Most of them where sailors and
fishermen. Everyone depended on Winter Jørgensen. There were two
mills on Melsom. The bay adjacent to the manor house is called
Melsomvik. Occupied with 31 families by 1801, a total of 270 persons
connected and belonged to Melsom. The manor or våningshus was
rebuilt in the 1840s.

 

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

1 time siden, Tove D. Johansen skrev:

I think we should not rule out the Karen Kirstine from Porsgrunn.

Then why were they not married in Porsgrunn, that's where the brides home church was, and where her parents lived(?), or perhaps they had moved to Melsom Stokke?

[Tove D. Johansen]

Isaach (Isak) Hansen died in 1811.

On 1815 census for Porsgrunn I can find his widow Anna Salvesdatter with two of the children: Søren Isaksen Spar and Berthe Catharine (she was the twin sister of Karen Kirstine)

 

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

That is because Isaach Hansen passed away in 1811

https://digitalarkivet.no/view/267/pg00000001334751

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

It's important to know when the widow was buried, because this will lead us to the probat. She owned a house in Porsgrunn. The probat will tell where the daughters lived.

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

?????

Karen Kristine Jacobsdatter Aal:

https://www.geni.com/people/John-Halvorsen/6000000022204068123

 

 

[Ann-Mary Engum]

 

Til Randi Elisabeth Haugros ( #45)

 

Har sendt deg en PM.

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

3 timer siden, Randi Elisabeth Haugros skrev:

?????

Karen Kristine Jacobsdatter Aal:

https://www.geni.com/people/John-Halvorsen/6000000022204068123

 

This looks promising, but her birth and marriage is not documented.

Endret Desember 21, 2017 av Astrid Kaardal Halleraker

[Frank McGuire]

Re  Karen Kirstine Jacobsdatter, i believe that has come from some online Ancestry family trees that I have seen.  I believe it is in error, probably because her name was probably misread as Jacobsen rather than Isaacsen on one of her chidren's baptism.  

 

[Knut Holt Sandblost]

John Halvorsen named two of his children Jacob Aall and Lovise Andrea after his emplyer and wife. Karen Kirstine was not of the Aall-family

[Astrid K. Halleraker]

Hello Frank McGuire, you are apparently not the only one searching. The fact is that this investigation has reached a level above my skills. We don't have the year of death for Karen Kirstines mother Anne Solvesdtr born 1759*, so it requires a sophisticated genealogist to do the next steps. Since Anne Solvesdtr owned a house, this property would perhaps have been sold after her death. The transaction of the building is maybe recorded in the pantebøker if the next owner took a morgage, and doing such a lookup is too advanced for me.