Johan Carl Palmstrom Death Certificate

[Egil Johannessen]

På 5.8.2019 den 14.32, Mark Peterson skrev:

Im thinking this Charles Peterson. https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?givenname=Charles&surname=Peterson&birth_place=Norway&birth_year_from=1826&birth_year_to=1834&collection_id=1401638

 

My fathers uncle, told his son that he left Norway and went to New York and to California to find gold, so maybe he came back to New York State and met Ellen Cavanagh in Troy, New York, married in August 1855 and then came to Melbourne, Australia in January 1856. Also he lived near the goldfields in 1856 onwards. He was also a Miner on some of his children’s  birth certificates.

 

This could be the same C. Peterson found in census 1850, El Dorado County, CA, now in Siskiyou County, CA, 24 years, miner. Lenke Ancestry

 

The California State Census, 1852  -  Lenke FS: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V4NX-V77
Name: C Peterson
Race: White
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Norway
Estimated birth year:    abt 1828
Age:    24
Residence County: Siskiyou

 

https://www.goldrushnuggets.com/gomiinsico.html

 

https://searchworks.stanford.edu/catalog?q="Siskiyou+County+Historical+Society.+Occasional+paper+-+Siskiyou+County+Historical+Society+%3B"&search_field=search_series

Endret August 7, 2019 av Egil Johannessen

[Ann-Mary Engum]

5 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

This could be the same C. Peterson found in census 1850, El Dorado County, CA, now in Siskiyou County, CA, 24 years, miner. Lenke Ancestry

 

The California State Census, 1852  -  Lenke FS: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V4NX-V77
Name: C Peterson
Race: White
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Norway
Estimated birth year:    abt 1828
Age:    24
Residence County: Siskiyou

 

https://www.goldrushnuggets.com/gomiinsico.html

 

https://searchworks.stanford.edu/catalog?q="Siskiyou+County+Historical+Society.+Occasional+paper+-+Siskiyou+County+Historical+Society+%3B"&search_field=search_series

 

 

[Egil Johannessen]

På 6.8.2019 den 2.38, Egil Johannessen skrev:

For your (& others) information; I've contacted the admin of the website. He has responded, however he's currently away on holiday and thus no access to the data. I've asked him to make contact when he returns.

 

 

 

 

I've heard back from admin. The above is based on information received from an Australian researcher (member of the Genealogical Society of Victoria) who was compiling a family tree for Dr Robert Peterson. He claimed and I quote: "So far I have found in August 1855 Johan Carl Pederson married Ellen Cavanagh in New York USA". Furthermore: "He changed his name to Charles Peterson when they came to Australia to begin their family here". No sources was provided.

 

As shown in post # 99, Johan Carl Palmstrøm (JCP) died Dec. 1855, thus the researcher could not have found the marriage (certificate or other document) from 1855. Most likely it was based upon Gertrude's birth reg. from 1877 where the information about the marriage was stated.

 

Information regarding JCP's death is submitted to admin of the website.

Endret August 7, 2019 av Egil Johannessen

[Ann-Mary Engum]

3 timer siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

Johan Carl Palmstrøm died 7th December 1855, "carpenter apprentice", 26 1/2 years old - entry no 14:

Aust-Agder county, Arendal in Arendal, Parish register (official) no. A 6 (1855-1868), Deceased and buried 1855, Page 323, Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060208010323

 

Entry no 15 in the parish register copy:

Aust-Agder county, Arendal in Arendal, Parish register (copy) no. B 2 (1838-1860), Deceased and buried 1856, Page 261, Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070329650346
 

 

 

Tråden på Ancestry bør oppdateres! 

 

https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/1.1.1.1/mb.ashx

[Egil Johannessen]

10 minutter siden, Ann-Mary Engum skrev:

Tråden på Ancestry bør oppdateres! 

 

https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/1.1.1.1/mb.ashx

 

Det er herved gjort  -  https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/1.1.2.1/mb.ashx

 

Samme for denne  -  https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/5.1/mb.ashx

Endret August 7, 2019 av Egil Johannessen

[Ann-Mary Engum]

6 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

Det er herved gjort  -  https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/1.1.2.1/mb.ashx

 

Samme for denne  -  https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/surnames.palmstrom/5.1/mb.ashx

 

Flott, Egil. 😊👏

Veldig bra at det ble gjort! 

 

[Egil Johannessen]

Akkurat nå, Ann-Mary Engum skrev:

Flott, Egil. 😊👏

Veldig bra at det ble gjort! 

 

Takk for det Ann-Mary ☺️

 

Forhåpentligvis er det flere som får dette med seg for det ligger "drøssevis" av familitrær på nettet med JCP = Charles Peterson !

[Ann-Mary Engum]

8 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

Takk for det Ann-Mary ☺️

 

Forhåpentligvis er det flere som får dette med seg for det ligger "drøssevis" av familitrær på nettet med JCP = Charles Peterson !

 

Ja, det er det som er så leit!

Mange har gått i fella! 

Det er nok mange familietrær som har denne  feilopplysningen om at JCP er samme person som Charles Peterson. 

Endret August 7, 2019 av Ann-Mary Engum

[Ann-Mary Engum]

Enda en tråd. 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1649

 

----

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951

Endret August 7, 2019 av Ann-Mary Engum

[Egil Johannessen]

8 minutter siden, Ann-Mary Engum skrev:

Enda en tråd. 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1649

 

Gammel tråd (2004) - men Mark bør legge inn JCP's død likevel.

Endret August 7, 2019 av Egil Johannessen

[Egil Johannessen]

Her er en nyere  -  http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951

[Ann-Mary Engum]

1 minutt siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

Gammel tråd (2004) - men Mark bør legge inn JCP's død likevel.

 

Det synes jeg også. 

 

[Kristian Hunskaar (privat)]

4 timer siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

Johan Carl Palmstrøm died 7th December 1855, "carpenter apprentice", 26 1/2 years old.

 

Entry no 14:

Aust-Agder county, Arendal in Arendal, Parish register (official) no. A 6 (1855-1868), Deceased and buried 1855, Page 323, Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060208010323

 

Entry no 15 in the parish register copy:

Aust-Agder county, Arendal in Arendal, Parish register (copy) no. B 2 (1838-1860), Deceased and buried 1856, Page 261, Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070329650346

 

Well done, Egil. In retrospect, that was a quite obvious place to start looking for a death record.

 

1 time siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

 

 

 

I've heard back from admin. The above is based on information received from an Australian researcher (member of the Genealogical Society of Victoria) who was compiling a family tree for Dr Robert Peterson. He claimed and I quote: "So far I have found in August 1855 Johan Carl Pederson married Ellen Cavanagh in New York USA". Furthermore: "He changed his name to Charles Peterson when they came to Australia to begin their family here". No sources was provided.

 

As shown in post # 99, Johan Carl Palmstrøm (JCP) died Dec. 1855, thus the researcher could not have found the marriage (certificate or other document) from 1855. Most likely it was based upon Gertrude's birth reg. from 1877 where the information about the marriage was stated.

 

That is exactly what I suspected. We have a case where a simple guess is conveyed to another researcher, who reproduces it as a fact, which is then perceived as a proof supporting the original guess. It's not unique in genealogy, nor in history. This shows exactly how important it is to always ask for sources, in order - among other things - to reveal dependencies between sources.

[Kristian Hunskaar (privat)]

The Australian researcher has also made an error - probably non-deliberate - by claiming that he had found the marriage of Johan Carl Pederson and Ellen Cavanagh. If he found a marriage at all, it was a marriage between Carl Peterson and Ellen Cavanagh, and then he actually guessed that Carl Peterson was identical with Johan Carl Pederson (Palmstrøm). Such (non-deliberate) errors are extremely common, and it shows the difference between reading the original source and reading some sort of reproduction of a source.

[Egil Johannessen]

59 minutter siden, Ann-Mary Engum skrev:

Enda en tråd. 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1649

 

----

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951

 

Da har jeg lagt inn informasjon om JCP's død i begge.

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=1649#67256

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=6951#67257

[Ann-Mary Engum]

4 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

 

Da har jeg lagt inn informasjon om JCP's død i begge.

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=1649#67256

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=6951#67257

 

Stor takk til deg, Egil! 😊

[Mark Peterson]

Thank you all ( Ann-Mary, Egil, Kristian, etc ) so much for your great research and patience with me, re Charles Peterson and JCP. I was just going by what the researcher told my mother 20 years ago, so I’m so sorry for wasting your time, but I truly appreciate all that you have done. Now I just need to find a bloke named Charles Peterson / Petterson from Arendal area in Norway Born between 1826-1834 that went to New York, USA before 1855 and married in Troy, New York, USA in late 1855 and then got on a ship with his wife Ellen Cavanagh and arrived in Melbourne Australia in January 1856. Thx again Mark Peterson. 

Endret August 7, 2019 av Mark Peterson

[Mark Peterson]

2 hours ago, Kristian Hunskaar (privat) said:

The Australian researcher has also made an error - probably non-deliberate - by claiming that he had found the marriage of Johan Carl Pederson and Ellen Cavanagh. If he found a marriage at all, it was a marriage between Carl Peterson and Ellen Cavanagh, and then he actually guessed that Carl Peterson was identical with Johan Carl Pederson (Palmstrøm). Such (non-deliberate) errors are extremely common, and it shows the difference between reading the original source and reading some sort of reproduction of a source.

 

He was a Norwegian Reseacher, Not Australian. So he didn’t do his paid job very well or didn’t have the internet 20-30 years ago. That’s ok, mistakes happen. But one should never PRESUME....

Endret August 7, 2019 av Mark Peterson

[Anton Hagelee]

 

Congratulations Egil, Nicely Solved 

 

Anton Hagelee, Norway Heritage

[Per.H.Skaug]

Mark,

 

have you ever considered doing a DNA test? The Palmstrøm connection is now disproven, but there may be a possibility that there are living male-line descendants of siblings or direct male-line ancestors of Carl Peterson in Norway (or elsewhere)? It may be difficult to correctly identify the Carl Peterson in the Arendal area who moved to the US and then on to Australia, but you may be able to narrow the family down if you can find a Y-DNA match with a living person.

[Mark Peterson]

15 minutes ago, Per H Skaug said:

Mark,

 

have you ever considered doing a DNA test? The Palmstrøm connection is now disproven, but there may be a possibility that there are living male-line descendants of siblings or direct male-line ancestors of Carl Peterson in Norway (or elsewhere)? It may be difficult to correctly identify the Carl Peterson in the Arendal area who moved to the US and then on to Australia, but you may be able to narrow the family down if you can find a Y-DNA match with a living person.

Yes, my father and I have considered it, but how many other ancestors of Charles Peterson have done the DNA test? If none, then could be a waste of money. What is the best company to go thru for DNA test? Thx Mark Peterson 

Endret August 7, 2019 av Mark Peterson

[Per.H.Skaug]

I am not the right person to say which company you should use - however, there are other experts on DNA on this board. I would recommend that you use a company that has a high number of participants from Norway, so it would probably be a good idea to ask on this board. There are discussion sites dedicated to DNA testing in Norway (I don't follow them, but I am sure there are people on this site that do) who would probably know the most appropriate companies or tests to use.

 

There is always the possibility that there are no living male line descendants of family members of Charles Peterson, or that none have taken the DNA test. That is always a risk, and I don't think anyone can give you the correct answer on whether it is worth it. That being said, if there are living male line descendants of anyone who shares male line ancestors with Charles Peterson, maybe some have taken it, or will do so in the future. You may also be able to find something using autosomal DNA, as Charles Peterson is presumably your only Norwegian ancestor, therefore it would be very likely that any direct hits in Norway would be through relatives of Charels Peterson (and not necessarily restricted to the male line).

[Egil Johannessen]

5 timer siden, Kristian Hunskaar (privat) skrev:

In retrospect, that was a quite obvious place to start looking for a death record.

 

"In hindsight everything is much clearer" 😉 (Bart Cummings)

[Kristian Hunskaar (privat)]

2 timer siden, Mark Peterson skrev:

He was a Norwegian Reseacher, Not Australian. So he didn’t do his paid job very well or didn’t have the internet 20-30 years ago. That’s ok, mistakes happen. But one should never PRESUME....

 

The one who gave information to palmstrom.net, was actually an Australian researcher, according to what the palmstrom.net admin wrote to Egil.

 

We don't know how this Australian researcher came up with Johan Carl Palmstrøm, but there is a possibility that he/she has copied information from the Internet. When it comes to the Norwegian researcher 20-30 years ago, he/she probably had to visit the archives or a library to spin microfilm reels. In those days, sources wasn't as available as today. He/she may have done as much investigation as it was fair to expect, but the conclusion about JCP should probably have been subject to stronger reservations.

Endret August 8, 2019 av Kristian Hunskaar (privat)

[Egil Johannessen]

1 minutt siden, Kristian Hunskaar (privat) skrev:

The one who gave information to palmstrom.net, was actually an Australian researcher, according to what the palmstrom.net admin wrote to Egil.

 

That's accurate.