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Merchant Thomas (Tømmeli) Heftye address


Lisa Machan
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Hello! Anne Marie Hansen Svendsrud is #57 in this record. She moved in the autumn of 1831, 22 years, servant, from Gjerdrum and born there, servant for merchant Thomas (Tømmeli)
Heftye, in   ......street, having 
 attestation from the vicar (sogneprest) Ingjer, dated Juli 16, 1832.

 

Is anyone able to read the name of the street? 

 

Also, I am trying to track down her family's residence in Aker. In 1835 she marries master mason Johan Martin Gulbrandsen and on their first son's baptism records the Heftye family are all sponsors. According to her children's baptism records, they live on Akersgaden until sometime around 1842 when they move to Pilestædveien 63, Kristiania. 

 

Is there a way to find their residence through tax records? I can't seem to access them from the States.

 

I would be so grateful for some insight...

 

Lisa

Anne Marie Hansen's move to Oslo.jpg

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Hello, Lisa.

 

Which church book is this? It is easier to magnify from the book, you see, than from a picture of the page. 

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You can also make a new posting (preferably with a link to the page - quicklink)

in the forum Tyding av skannede kilder  for interpretation of difficult writing in scanned text.

 

Endret av Anne-Lise Hansen
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That is much better. 🙂 

 

Oslo fylke, Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers i Oslo, Ministerialbok nr. 27 (1828-1840), Innflyttede 1834, Side 340-341
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20061006010739
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061006010739

 

 

I read Raadstuegaden. A street I did not know existed, but after googling I found descriptions of old fire insurance assessments from 1797, and there it was!

   

 

Assessment of Fire Insurance

Property: Christiania, Vestre gnr. 256

Previous · 1137 of 1378 · Next

Year: 1797
Owner: Maler Daniel Schæffer
Street Address: Raadstuegaden
Value: 1200
Currency: Riksdaler courant (1625 – 1813)
Original Sources: Digitalarkivet
Original Comment: Ejeren Daniel Schæffer var tilstede og havde Intet at erindre

Note:

 

(...)

 
 

https://databaser.tidvis.no/fireInsurance/assessment.jsp?id=11994&rn=26&rc=2091343193&index=1

 

 

 

 

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Anne-Lise, I think you are right!

 

I found this: Kjøbmand Thomas (Tommeli) Heftye f. 1797. gm. Eleonore Pless og død 1838, Eier af Øvre Skillebæk. http://runeberg.org/christiani/1909/0276.html

 

I don't believe that Raadhusgaten extended into Skillebaek, but this has to be correct. I wonder if Raadhusgaten was where his home or offices were. He grew up on Tollbugata, so this actually makes sense.  https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058232001382  Also, he and his wife were sponsors for quite a few children at Garnisonmenigheten. This would have been close by. 

 

Do you know if there is a way to check tax records for addresses? 

 

I am very grateful! I couldn't have deciphered this on my own!

 

Lisa 

 

 

 

 

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No, I do not know if there are more accurate addresses in tax lists. More skilled persons must answer questions about tax lists. I found this about silver tax in 1816, but not ‘your’ Thomas H. here:

 

 

 

Endret av Anne-Lise Hansen
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Thank you! All three of Tommelie Heftye's brother's were baptism sponsors to Anne Marie and Johan Martin's Gulbrandsen's first born son.

Lisa

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  • 2 måneder senere...

Now the address of the British Embassy (embassy address Thomas Heftyes gate 8, though, but you enter from Drammensveien 79 when garden parties etc. take place).

 

DTH

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5 timer siden, Tove D. Johansen skrev:

Thomas Heftye bought "Frognæs", address: Drammensveien 79 (at Skillebekk) in 1852. 

 

https://digitaltmuseum.no/021047948818/konsul-th-heftyes-villa-frognaes-vid-kristiania-xylografi

 

Tove DJ 

 

There were several persons named Thomas Heftye. The one who lived at "Frognæs" was born in 1822 and died in 1886:

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Heftye_(1822–1886)

 

Thomas (Tømeli) Heftye (1797-1838) was his father's brother.

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Tove and Dag, thank you so much for digging into this! Elin is correct, Thomas Thomassen Heftye (1798-1838) – aka Tommelie is the uncle of Thomas Heftye (who is the namesake of the nearby street in Skillebekk.) 

 

Merchant Thomas (Tømmeli) Heftye is described in my ancestor Anne Marie’s moving records as being “of Rådhusgata”.  The family business, Thos. Joh. Heftye & Sons, was founded by Merchant Heftye’s father just a few streets over (corner of Toldbodgaden and Kongens Gade), so I wonder if this designation is referring to his city home or his business. According to one source, Tømmeli Heftye also had a family home at Øvre Skillebæk which (I believe) is now part of the French Embassy. (Though I think the actual home no longer exists.) I am not sure if it was a summer home or a permanent residence so I am not sure where my ancestor would have lived. She served the family from 1831 until her marriage in 1835.  Tømmeli Heftye's wife and his 3 brothers all served as godparents for her first son's baptism. I wonder if that was common? 

 

Here is says Tømmeli Heftye is the owner at Skillebekk, http://runeberg.org/christiani/1893/0384.html

 

scanned image

 

And here it says he is owner of Øvre Skillebæk   http://runeberg.org/christiani/1909/0276.html.  I am not sure which is correct or if there is any way to find out. 

 

Thank you Elen for the wonderful map and the interactive video! These are incredible resources!

 

Lisa

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Hi Lisa,

 

I have been informed that Thomas (Tømeli) Heftye lived at Øvre Skillebekk from about 1837. The large house including garden covered an area of 6.2 acres (25 mål), corresponding to what is today Drammensveien 47-53. The source was said to be this book:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/frogner-fra-jordbruk-og-lkkeland-til-bydel/oclc/551707085?referer=di&ht=edition

 

The residence of Tømeli Heftye during the years 1831-35 is unknown to me.

 

 

Endret av Elin Galtung Lihaug
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Wealthy citizens of Christiania ,in addition to their house in the city, often had a property (called a "løkke") a little bit outside the city.

 

 

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Thank you Tove...I wondered. And thank you Elin...that is interesting. (Ahh...disappointing...but better to know.) If he didn't live there until 1837, that means he was only there less than a year before his death. It is certainly possible that the family was there at the løkke while it was being built, so perhaps she did visit the property.

 

Thank you for the book title and (quite beautiful) picture. The location seems to be of the same time period; perhaps Drammensveien 24) is just a little east of Løkke Skillebæk if Løkke Skillebæk was at Niels Juhl's gate 11. It looks like Drammensveien 47-53 could have included the Niels Juhl's gate 11 area.  http://oslobilder.no/OMU/OB.Y2229?query=+Skillebekk+,+Niels+Juels+gate+11&count=7&search_context=1&pos=1 This is where I get confused. In the picture I included above, Sollibakken seems to be to the west of "Skillebæk". 

 

I found the following picture of "Løkke Skillebæk" 1828, but I am not sure if this would have been considered part of Øvre Skillebæk? The inscription says "nede til h: Til Professor Scheldrups Lökke" so perhaps this is Nedre Skillebekk. I am unsure if this is part of the same property. 

 

Prior to your information I used this site from lokalhistoriewike to identify Øvre Skillebæk as 65-69 Drammensveien (where the French Embasy now stands). The villas here were built later (1891 and 1907), but would the designation of Øvre Skillebæk now be a general location and not the villa designation of Heftye?  https://lokalhistoriewiki.no/wiki/Drammensveien_(Oslo)

 

Thank you for your insight. My wheels are still spinning. Perhaps I am at a dead end.

 

Lisa

 

image.png.2b47d81bf7b0001a4988747769ad2bf3.png

 

 

Endret av Lisa M.
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Yes, Drammensveien 24 is a little east of Skillebekk, and yes, Drammensveien 47-53 was next to Niels Juels gate 11. It is probably the perspective/angle from which your photo was taken (from the roof of the Royal Palace)  which indicates Solli west of Skillebekk, but it is the opposite. Here are a couple of maps:

 

image.png.ff7e45d1120c7e783261feb1439873cd.png

 

The 'H' to the right is where Solli plass is today. Solli løkke was probably the area close by. Skillebekk is the area west of Solli covering most of this map. Øvre Skillebekk (upper S.) is north of Munkedamsveien (the street between Filipstad and Observatorie terrasse), whereas Nedre Skillebekk (lower S.) is south of Munkedamsveien - so Øvre/upper and Nedre/lower are general terms.

 

Drammensveien goes horizontally in the middle of the map. Niels Juels gate is parallel to Gabels gate and the street numbers 47-53 and 11A+B) are shown on this enlarged map:

image.png.4a9509424f9a1347c9ae3aa060c9a6aa.png

 

The link to these maps including house numbers:  https://kart.gulesider.no/?c=59.913168,10.709369&z=17

Using Google maps and street view you can "walk" the streets.

 

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Thank you Elin! Last year I stayed at Hotel Gabelshus, just blocks away from Heftye's home and didn't realize it (!) 

 

So perhaps Øvre Skillebakk Løkke (Niels Juels gate 11) is the correct Heftye property but it definitely does not encompass the property at the French Embassy. 

 

Skillebakk in the 1860s photo above could possibly be Heftye's villa property then? The Øvre Skillebakk Løkke picture from 1919 may not be the original Heftye home though. It would already be 80 years old.

 

In 1828, the area of Nedre Skillebekk and Solliløkken looks very open. Perhaps Øvre Skillebakk Løkke was also at that time. 

 

Thank you so much for following up. The maps were very helpful.

 

Lisa

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The correct Thomas (Tømeli) Heftye property first had the address Drammensveien 65, which corresponds to Drammensveien 47-53 today. This was his permanent residence (after 1837), not a summer residence.

 

I would just like to remind you of the Discussion forum rules:

  1. You must register a user account before you can participate in discussions. Provide your full name and a valid email address, and use your full name as a display name.

https://forum.arkivverket.no/announcement/2-ordensregler-for-debattene-discussion-forum-rules/

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/content/change-display-name

 

It would also be nice to know where you are located ... in the USA?

 

Elin

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Thank you Elin. That is very helpful information and clears up a lot of confusion.

 

My understanding is that I am fully registered with an account email and full name. I didn't use my full name as a display name as we have been the victim of identity theft and I am generally anxious about using my name all over the internet. If that is an ironclad rule for this site, I will adjust it. Yes, I am in the USA.

 

Lisa

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