Amsterdam - jødiske kyrkjebøker frå seint 1600-tal?

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for eit nytt godt innlegg!

 

Det ser ut til at me kjem nærare og nærare ei forståing for denne huslyden!  Eg har gjort ei «privat brainstorming» på denne huslyden i kveld og er komen fram til følgjande:

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Etter mange nye funn er dette manuskriptet erstatta av eit nytt i innlegg #34 under!)

 

Det store spørsmålet er altso kva som står i vigselsattestane frå 1671 og 1680, særleg med omsyn til namni på foreldri!?

 

Eg ser forresten at ei Ribka Salom de Assevedo gifte seg i 1708, 19 år gamal, ei dotter av Moses og Rachel!

 

Eg er overtydd om at namnet de ASSEVEDO eintydig høyrer til farslinja i denne huslyden!!  Og so er de ASSEVEDO vorte til det «verdslege» de PAS!?

 

Eg er som alltid spent på framhaldet...

Endret Februar 27, 2020 av Lars E. Øyane

[Ivar Moe]

6 timer siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

Eg har gjort ei «privat brainstorming» på denne huslyden i kveld og er komen fram til følgjande:

 

Det ser bra ut Lars. I tillegg kjenner vi nå mange av søknene til Salomo.

 

Her er dødsattesten til Moses Salom fra Portuguese cemetery . Den bekrefter bla at Moses først var gift med Miliana og deretter Rachel + fødsels info/div.

 

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

Her en søster til Moses

 

[Ivar Moe]

Og Felipa som er nevnt her som datter av Abraham var vel kona til din Salomon de Pas. Han var hennes nevø.

Det står også i dødsattesten til Moses at hans mor var Felipa de Pas.

 

 

 

Vielsen ?  Hvis denne er rett så må vi til Antwerpen for å finne aner. Vielseåret stemmer så da er det nok rette folket.

D	3747
First name groom	Antonio
Name father groom	Azevedo d'
Last name groom
Birth year groom	1613
Groom origin	Antwerpen
Hebr. signature groom
First name witness groom	Guimar
Name father witness groom	Nunes
Last name witness groom
Family relation of witness groom	moeder
First name bride	Philippa
Name father bride	Paz de
Last name bride
Birth year bride	1620
Bride origin	Antwerpen
Hebr. signature bride
Family relation witness bride	vader
First name witness bride	Jan
Name father witness bride	Paz de
Last name witness bride
Marriage year	1644
Marriage certificate	677-251

Endret Februar 27, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for fleire «geniale» innlegg frå morgontimene i dag!  Dette er jo berre heilt fantastisk, og me kjem attende til den gamle «jødebyen» Antwerpen, framleis i dag kjend for «diamantindustrien»!

 

Eg skreiv seint i aftes endå ein gong til Byarkivet i Amsterdam og bad om ei namnetyding frå dei to vigslene 1671 og 1680, samt om ei forklaring på innhaldet i dei to notarialdokumenti frå 1686 og 1704.  Her er svaret eg fekk i dag morges (endå ein gong «super» service! - der har det norske arkivverket noko å lera...!):

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Dear Sir,

First of al the marital records don't give the date of marriage but the date before the first publication of the banns.
So not "trouw- " but "ondertrouwinschrijvingen".

Normally one came with one witness. The first deed tells us the father is ill (vader sieck) and so the bride comes
with her mother Ripka Salom. (29.3.1680)

16.1.1671: his father Salom de Pas, her mother Rachel de Pas.

Notary 1:

Moyses, as son of the deceased Salomon de Pas, declares he sold an interest letter
to Mr. Lucas Occo and that he was paid the whole amount.

Notary 2:
Rachel Salom d'Assevodo, widow of Mozes Salom d'Assevedo gives Elias Aboab Furtado
authorization to declare to the regents of the town that she didn't drink wine between
1.10-1703 and 1.10.1704, alone nor with others.

Kind regards,
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Vigselsattesten frå 1644 provar tydeleg at Salomon de Pas (nr. 4 i ættetavla mi frå innlegg #26) er identisk med Antonio de Assevedo, nemnd i ættetavla frå 1725.  Han gifte seg i 1644 (kvar er denne vigselsattesten??) med Philippa (Felipa) de Pas.  Han var ein nevø, men ikkje til Philippa, derimot til far hennar, Abraham Salom alias Jan de Pas.  So Salomon alias Antonio de Assevedo og Philippa var søskenborn!  Desse vart so foreldre til mellom anna Moses (nr. 2 i ættetavla mi!).  Mor til Salomon Salom alias Antonio de Assevedo var Guimar Nunes(!), medan Philippa var dotter til Jan de Pas.  Frå ættetavla 1725 veit me so at far til Salomon alias Antonio var Moses Salom alias André de Assevedo, som igjen var bror til Jan de Pas OG til Abraham de Pas!  Huffamei, innvikla, men forsovidt forståeleg!?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Etter mange nye funn er dette manuskriptet erstatta av eit nytt i innlegg #34 under!)

 

Då er farsætti til Salomon alias Sebastian Michael Andreas SIXTUS godt «på plass», men kva so med morsætti?  Alt me sikkert veit, er at faren (namn ukjent) var sjuk («sieck») i 1680, medan mori var Ripka (avstutting for Rebecca?) Salom.

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand med denne huslyden!

Endret Februar 27, 2020 av Lars E. Øyane

[Lars E. Øyane]

Eg har nettopp oppdaga eit spennande familietre hjå ancestry.com.

 

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/20604138/person/968993793/facts

 

Dette inneheld mellom anna denne huslyden:

 

David SALOM, fødd kring 1619, gift kring 1644 med

Ribca SALOM d'AZEVEDO, fødd kring 1623 som dotter av

Patriarch SALOM d'AZEVEDO

 

Patriarch SALOM d'AZEVEDO har «assumed» ogso ein son (halvsøster til Ribca):

NN SALOM d'AZEVEDO, fødd kring 1601.  Denne har tydeleg frå to ekteskap(?) sønene:

* David SALOM d'AZEVEDO, fødd 1627 - far til Sipora SALOM d'AZEVEDO, fødd 1653 - gift i Amsterdam 1675 med David LOPES de PAZ, fødd 1651

* Aron SALOM d'AZEVEDO, fødd 1656 - gift i Amsterdam 1687 med Abigail PENSO

 

Vidare påstår treeigaren at David og Ribca hadde ein son:

Moses Raphael SALOM, fødd i BRASIL 1645, men gift i Amsterdam 1676 med Esther ABOAB FURTADO, fødd 1651.  Desse har treeigaren so sett opp som foreldri til:

Esther SALOM, fødd i HAMBURG 1673, gift i Amsterdam 1705 med Daniel ABOAB de PAZ.

 

Når det gjeld denne siste Esther, so vart me vel samde om at ho var dotter av Moses SALOM i første ekteskaet hans frå 1671!?  So på dette punktet har vel treeigsren ein feil.

 

DERIMOT:

 

At David SALOM og Ribca SALOM d'AZEVEDO gifte seg kring 1644 og var eit par, er ikkje urimeleg, og eg vil gissa på at dei KAN vera foreldri til Rachel SALOM, fødd 1656, andre kona til «vår» Moses SALOM!!

 

So er vel Aron SALOM d'AZEVEDO (1656) før identifisert som bror av «vår» Moses SALOM de Assevedo, alias Jan de PAS, noko som tyder at NN SALOM d'AZEVEDO må vera identisk med Salomon Salom de ASSEVEDO alias Antonio de PAS, fødd i Antwerpen 1613!?  Men var han halvbror (eller fullbror) til Ribca SALOM d'AZEVEDO???

 

Denne siste konjekturen er eg ikkje so sikker på om stemmer, men det var heilt klart mykje inngifte i denne ætti, so heilt utelukka skal me ikkje denne tanken...

 

Kanskje lét det seg gjera finna eit prov på sambandet mellom David SALOM (1619) og Ribca?

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand med denne «annleis» huslyden!

[Ivar Moe]

5 timer siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

Notary 2:
Rachel Salom d'Assevodo, widow of Mozes Salom d'Assevedo gives Elias Aboab Furtado
authorization to declare to the regents of the town that she didn't drink wine between
1.10-1703 and 1.10.1704, alone nor with others.

 

Dette var en morsom historie da Lars, og hyggelig at du har fått samme inntrykket av hjelpsomheten i arkivene i Nederland som jeg har. Her er det mye å lære for enhver...

 

3 timer siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

Moses Raphael SALOM, fødd i BRASIL 1645, men gift i Amsterdam 1676 med Esther ABOAB FURTADO, fødd 1651

Denne karen fra Brasil har jeg sett vielsen til, men finner han ikke igjen i farten. En ting er alle aliasene som er brukt men i tillegg kommer jo også innskrivingen i kirkebøker etc der  navnene kan bli helt ugjenkjennelige.

Vedrørende Esther i samme tema så er nok det en feil fra slektstre eier ja, lett å gå seg vill her det er sikkert.

Mulig det også kan være en kobling mellom Elias Aboab Furtado som gå god for Rachels vin drikke stopp og Esther Aboab Furtado ?

 

Her er et par som jeg ikke i farten klarer å plassere, men legger de inn i tilfelle det kan komme til nytte senere.

 

Daniel van Samuel de Pas og Hanna de Pas som gifter seg i 1691. Han 28 og hun 17 år i 1691

Hans far Samuel de Pas og hennes far Isach de Pas.

 

[Ivar Moe]

Litt flere dødsattester fra Azevedeo slekta

 

 

 

Her er mor til brasilianeren Moses Raphael Salom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for endå eit spennande og imponerande innlegg!

 

Det ser jo ut til heile denne huslyden er skikkeleg inngift «på alle bauar og kantar»!  Eg børjar lura på om ikkje dette var ganske so vanleg innan jødeslektar?  Me kjenner jo det same frå dei gamle romarane...!  Og denne artikkelen på fransk synest stadfesta dette med inngifte: https://fr.timesofisrael.com/chez-les-juifs-ashkenazes-tout-le-monde-est-cousin-eloigne-avec-tout-le-monde/

 

Men no er det særleg ei sak eg stussar veldig på:

 

Det er ikkje mogeleg at Ribca SALOM de ASSEVEDO kan vera avlidi so seint som i 1740, dersom ho er mor til «brasilianaren» Moses Raphael SALOM, fødd 1645.  Ho ville i so fall vera bortimot 120 år gamal, og DET trur eg berre ikkje!  Mannen David, som ifølgje vigselsattesten frå 1680 då var sjuk, ser eg døydde i 1699 (dersom det er rett mann...).  Men interessant er det òg å observera at som born etter David og Ribca er berre opprekna Moses Raphael (brasilianaren), Aron og Judith!  Rachel er IKKJE med på denne lista, endå me no veit at ho døydde i 1724!  Kva kan kjelda vera for dette - kanskje ein liktale etter brasilianaren??  Elles er jo desse korti forfatta og påskrivne med skrivemaskin på 1900-talet, so kanskje «forfattarane» ikkje har vore heilt «orienterte»??

 

Elles ser eg ikkje bort ifrå at delar av huslyden faktisk KAN ha vore utvandra til Brasil (portugisisk koloni) og sidan attendekomne til Europa og då til Amsterdam.  Kanskje det er òrsaki til at me ikkje finn vigsli til David og Ribca i eit register i Amsterdam som elles synest vera ganske so fullstendig!?

 

Under forbehald om at Rachel verkeleg var dotter av David (mori var i alle fall Ribca!), har eg oppdatert ættetavla mi frå innlegg #30 slik:

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

1. Salomo SALOM alias Sebastian SIXTUS

* jring 1686 i Amsterdam, Holland

† 10.12.1751 i Langenzenn, Franken, Bayern

∞ 28.11.1712 i Langenzenn, Franken, Bayern

 

2. Moses SALOM de ASSEVEDO, alias Jan de PAS

* kring 1648 i Amsterdam, Holland

† 19.09.1704 i Amsterdam, Holland

∞ 29.03.1680 i Amsterdam, Holland

 

3. Rachel SALOM

* kring 1656 i Amsterdam, Holland

† 03.07.1724 i Amsterdam, Holland

 

4. Salomon SALOM de ASSEVEDO alias Antonio de PAS

* kring 1613 i Antwerpen, Belgia

† kring 1684(?) i Amsterdam, Holland

∞ 19.08.1644 i Amsterdam, Holland

 

5. Philippa de PAS

* kring 1620 i Antwerpen, Belgia

† ??

 

6. David SALOM de ASSEVEDO alias André de PAS

* kring 1620(?) - kanskje i Antwerpen, Belgia?

† 17.07.1699 i Amsterdam, Holland

∞ kring 1644 i Brasil?

 

7. Ribca

* kring 1622(?) - kanskje òg i Antwerpen, Belgia?

† 09.06.1691 -  i Amsterdam, Holland

 

8. Moses SALOM de ASSEVEDO alias André de PAS

* 

† 12.06.1641 i Amsterdam, Holland

∞ 

 

9. Sipora alias Guimar NUNES

* 

†  20.09.1659 i Amsterdam, Holland

 

10. Abraham Salom (de ASSEVEDO) alias Jan de PAS

* kring 1588 i ?Antwerpen, Belgia

† 13.11.1652 i Amsterdam, Holland

∞ 

 

11. Sara

* 

† 12.12.1634 i Amsterdam, Holland

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Heilt utruleg at dette er mogeleg å finna ut av!  Ein ny kjempetakk til deg, Ivar, som har bidratt med so mykje!

 

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Lars E. Øyane

[Lars E. Øyane]

På 27.2.2020 den 0.31, Ivar Moe skrev:

Vielsen ?  Hvis denne er rett så må vi til Antwerpen for å finne aner. Vielseåret stemmer så da er det nok rette folket.

D	3747
First name groom	Antonio
Name father groom	Azevedo d'
Last name groom
Birth year groom	1613
Groom origin	Antwerpen
Hebr. signature groom
First name witness groom	Guimar
Name father witness groom	Nunes
Last name witness groom
Family relation of witness groom	moeder
First name bride	Philippa
Name father bride	Paz de
Last name bride
Birth year bride	1620
Bride origin	Antwerpen
Hebr. signature bride
Family relation witness bride	vader
First name witness bride	Jan
Name father witness bride	Paz de
Last name witness bride
Marriage year	1644
Marriage certificate	677-251

 

Ivar!

 

Denne vigselsattesten frå 1644, kva er kjelda for denne?  Eg finn ikkje denne i arkivlista frå Byarkivet i Amsterdam, so kanskje var vigselsstaden Antwerpen?

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for hjelpi!

[Ivar Moe]

Alt er tatt fra https://www.dutchjewry.org/tree_search.shtml basen som jeg la ut i # 25.

 

Den kan være litt utfordrende å manøvrere i. Er på jobb, men skal se om jeg finner den igjen denne vielsen senere.

 

Her er noen søkemuligheter. vielser, begravelser, slektstrær osv

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/tree_search.shtml

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portugese_marriages/a.shtml#

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/port_cemetery_az.shtml

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for siste innlegget!

 

Eg har sett litt meir på gravferdsregisteret (den siste referansen din ovanfor) og ser det var to Ribca SALOM de AZEVEDO, den som du sende frå 1740 som det seiast om var mor til «brasilianaren», samt ei som døydde (vart gravlagd) 9.6.1691, som òg var gift med ein David:

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02285401.jpg

 

Denne siste må då vera «vår» Ribca! Dei to ligg i same gravi:

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02277001.jpg

 

Og her er gravi til «brasilianaren», son av David og Ribca.  Han ligg i gravi ved sidan av foreldri!

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02284001.jpg

 

Elles kan det vera vel verd å studera dei som ligg gravlagd i lag med denne Ribca i Plot 1614 Row 7

 

Her har me òg «bestefaren» som døydde i 1641, truleg «patriarken» som hadde 10 born:

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02283701.jpg

 

og kona hans Sipora:

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02289701.jpg

 

Kortet til Abraham seier noko om Sara med referanse til 1634, so kanskje er dette ho:

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/popup.htm?../P.I.G./image/02287901.jpg

 

Fantastisk kjelde!!!  Men er det mogeleg å søka basen på plassering av gravene?  Eg finn ikkje noko telefonnummer til nokon som kan kontaktast!

 

Eg har oppdatert basen frå innlegg #34 med dei nye funni!

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for hjelpi!

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Lars E. Øyane

[Lars E. Øyane]

Ivar!

 

Etter kvart som eg i dag har studert gravferdsregisteret og fann nye opplysningar, oppdaterte eg både føregåande innlegg #37 samt innlegg #34 med siste versjon av familiebasen.

 

Det som eg no opplever som dei største gåtene er:

 

** Kvifor er ikkje Rachel (#3) oppskriven som søster av «brasilianaren», endå om alt tyder på at ho må høyra til same huslyden?

 

** So er eg ikkje i stand til å finna gravferdene til #4 Salomon, som me veit døydde før 1686, samt til kona #5 Philipps (Felipa)?  Kanskje du har betre hell med deg?

 

Elles vil eg tru det kanskje finst notarialaktar for nokon av dei eldre generasjonane?  Dette var tydeleg ressurssterke folk, og ein etter måten «mektig klan» den gongen i Amsterdam!!

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand!

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hei igjen Ivar!

 

No fann eg endeleg vigsli til Anthonio de ASSEVEDO og Felipa de PAS i Amsterdam:

 

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?sa={"person_2":{"search_t_geslachtsnaam":"Pas","search_t_voornaam":"felipa"},"search_s_register_type_title":["Ondertrouwregister"]}

 

men kvar fann du ekstraktet som du sende før?

 

Elles står framleis eit anna spørsmål òpe:

 

** Er det mogeleg å søkja gravferdsregisteret etter kvar gravi ligg?

 

Ein ny kjempetakk!

[Ivar Moe]

41 minutter siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

No fann eg endeleg vigsli til Anthonio de ASSEVEDO og Felipa de PAS i Amsterdam:

 

Supert Lars. Det var greit å få det bekreftet.

 

Her er lenke til vielsekortet jeg sendte. Du må søke på Pas

 

https://www.dutchjewry.org/sr/pa.shtml

 

[Ivar Moe]

En liten kurositet.

 

I 1772 er Abraham d' Açevedo i børskrangel  ( Ruzie op de beurs) med en Cornelis Bredal.

https://www.openarch.nl/saa:9845aaa2-ff7a-3602-cfe2-266788b053c1

Nå finner jeg ikke opphavet til Cornelis i farten, men det er en Paulus Bredal i Amsterdam på tidligere tidspunkt. Han er fra Trondheim og gifter seg i Amsterdam 1712.

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for siste innleggi!

 

Eg har prøvd å finna linken du oppgjev i innlegg #40, men eg får det ikkje til, so noko gjer eg nok galt.  Derimot ser eg at det her vert referert til ei Rachel PAS som er fødd i Antwerpen i 1631 - kanskje ei søster av Felipa?

 

Elles har eg oppdaga at denne soga om Brasil ikkje er so langt ute på jordet!  Nederland hadde, som du sikkert veit, ein koloni i Surinam, nabolandet til Brasil, og dit var det fleire jødar som utvandra frå Amsterdam for å driva plantasjeverksemd.  Ser du på linken til gravferdi hans David frå innlegg #37, ser du ein merknad om «Hij was Resident van de Bey van Algiers te Amsterdam».  Eg ringte til Jan Keus og ba han omsetja dette, og her er kva han skriv:

 

«Bey’en av Algiers var herskeren (konge) og residenten var hans representant i A’dam. Den nederlandske republikk hadde mange handelsavtaler med moslim statene langs den afrikanske kyst. Det gjaldt mest å skaffe seg beskyttelse mot sjørøvere for sine handelsfartøy.

Se på Google og skriv «Bey van Algiers» da får du en del svar.»

 

Det var nok i samband med ei slik sjøreise at unge Salomo og kameratane hans vart tekne til fange i Middelhavet...

 

Eg er ganske so imponert over alt som etter kvart dukkar opp om denne ættegreini til kona mi, og eg takkar på ny for framifrå bistand!

[Ivar Moe]

10 minutter siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

Elles har eg oppdaga at denne soga om Brasil ikkje er so langt ute på jordet!

 

Denne artikkelen omhandler Isach Aboad, som sikkert er i din kones slekt der også Aboad navnet går igjen i slektsleddene. Meget berømt kar. Han fra  Brasil til Amsterdam.

 

"A laurel upon his grave"

A short description of the life and works of Chacham Isack Aboab da Fonseca.

Introductory:
Recently it was discovered that the Portuguese community Kahal Zur Israel most certainly was the eldest Jewish community on the American continent. Ishac Aboab da Fonseca, chacham of Kahal Zur Israel, represents therefore the first “officiating” rabbi in the New World. This, consequently, sparked a renewed interest in the personality of chacham Aboab.
So we now know that not all that we read about his life, is correct, for instance the erroneous detail, widely published, that Aboab was the rabbi of the Amsterdam community Beth Israel.
Reason the more to take a plumb into sources of the Municipal Archive of Amsterdam and sketch his life and work on the basis of recently discovered archival material.

Chacham Aboab died in Amsterdam on Adar II 27th, 5453, being April 4th 1693 at the ripe old age of 88. At his funeral the next day in Ouderkerk, the poet-rabbi Solomon d'Oliveyra spoke at his graveside and commemorated Aboab in poetic words. (1) He started his speech with a metaphor about a broken clock: "the clock does not work anymore, the wheels have fallen out and the cords are broken, everything is mixed up".

I
This confusion is perhaps also the state of mind of the speaker and his audience and that is very well imaginable: Isack Aboab had served the Portuguese community for over 70 years and during this period he was for many a source of wisdom, a beacon and a source of strength. The seventeenth century was a "Golden Age" of prosperity and freedom for the Republic of the Netherlands, Amsterdam and the Portuguese Jews. At the same time, however, it was for the Sefardim a century of uncertainty, distress and conflicts to which Aboab was witness. To begin with, there was the uncertainty of the earliest period of settling in Amsterdam. Then there was the laborious strain around the 'Uniao", the uniting of the three separate communities Bet Israel, Bet Jakob and Neve Salom into one, the Talmud Torah in 1639.

Around 1641 Aboab and his companions left for Recife in Brasil; they survived the rough conditions that prevailed during the Portuguese siege.
In most cases the year of 1642 is mentioned as the year of his departure.
Because of the fact, that his function in the Amsterdam community was taken over by Menasse ben Israel already in May 1641, there is reason to assume that his departure occurred earlier. (2)


After his return to Amsterdam, Aboab was involved in the commotion around Baruch Spinoza in 1656. He was also swept along in the ecstasy around Shabtai Zvi in 1666 and afterwards experienced disenchantment with his ideas. In the end Aboab was the driving force behind the building of the new synagogue.

Aboab has left behind many works, both written as well as translated; he cooperated with writers, poets and printers and portraits have been painted of him. In the notary archives of the city of Amsterdam minutes have been found proving that he participated in the daily life of the city.
After his demise his library has been sold. A description of his collection has been kept.

In short, Aboab has left behind a long trail and his biography echoes the story of the Sefardy Jews in Amsterdam of the seventeenth century.

II
Isaac Aboab was born in 1605 in Castrodaira, Portugal; his parents were David Aboab and Isabel da Fonseca. Out of fear of the Inquisition the family had themselves baptized; Isaac got the name Simao da Fonseca. Nevertheless, the family was not safe; they fled the persecution to St. Jean-de-Luz, very near the border in France and from there to Amsterdam,where they arrived about 1612. His father became a member of Neve Salom.
In some texts it is stated that David Aboab died in Saint-Jean de Luz. As no source is given for this information, we assume that the David Aboab, mentioned as a member of Neve Shalom, was the father of I.Aboab. He paid 5 guilders to the community Neve Shalom in the year 1616, this according to the manual of that community that begins in 1616.
According to this source he remained a paying member until 1638.
Isaac Aboab was educated by Chacham Uziel, who was a native of Fez in Barbary. Aboab turned, like his teacher, into a follower of the Cabala.

He is referred to as Ishac Aboafe/Aboab. Only in a later stage did he add his mother’s name Da Fonseca, to his own name .So as to distinguish between him and the other
Aboab’s he is usually mentioned with both names in one.(3)

The first time his name appeared in a source is in the manual of the treasurer of Neve Salom.In the year 5380 (1619/20) he paid for the first time a small annual contribution to the community. The following year, in 5381, he received a salary of about 15 guilders: he taught at the Talmud Torah and he dedicated himself to the Study of the Law. (4) At that time he was not yet seventeen years old.

III
During this period the development of the Jewish printing industry started in Amsterdam. Menasse ben Israel (1604-1657) initiated in 1626 the first Jewish printing house in Amsterdam. He printed Spanish, Hebrew and Latin books. He was quickly followed by other Jewish printers/publishers. The arrival around 1640 of the important Venetian printer Emanuel Benveniste meant that Amsterdam had overtaken Venice as the center of the world market for Hebrew books. This came about as a result of the great freedom that Jews enjoyed there, as well as the economic growth in the Republic. The Jewish printing industry provided work for printers, proofreaders, agents and bookbinders – and the books were sent to all over Europe, as well as to the Ottoman Empire and Asia. Isaac Aboab earned his living in the printing industry as well, along with other activities. The first Hebrew book was printed in Amsterdam in 1627 by Menasse ben Israel, with Aboab's assistance who did the proofreading for this prayer book.

In the historical writings of the period it is almost always mentioned that Isaac Aboab was chacham at Beth Israel in the period before the union in 1639. From the archives it seems, however, that he was engaged by the Neve Salom community. In 1633/34 he received 200 guilders a year as chazzan. The following year, in 5395, chacham Aboab received 300 guilders a year. (5) In 1638, one year before the Uniao, he still received this salary as chacham. (6) Chacham Menasse ben Israel received 150 guilders, the same as 'Ruby' Jacob Gomes.

IV
In 1639, along with the Uniao and the founding of Talmud Tora, Menasse Ben Israel, David Pardo, Saul Levi Morteira and Isaac Aboab were appointed chachamim. Aboab was instructed to teach the Hebrew language and the first lessons in Gemara. (7) He also had to provide the 'Derashot de noite'.

He did not serve long at the new Talmud Tora of the community. From the colony Pernambuco in Northern Brazil came the news that Jews could live there in all freedom. The Dutch had conquered this colony in 1624 from the Portuguese. Together with, amongst others, Mozes Raphael de Aguilar, Aboab left around 1641 or 1642 for Brazil. He served in the community Kahal Zur Israel in Recife. It came recently to light that Kahal Zur Israel, probably founded in 1636, was the oldest Jewish community on the American continent, and not the community Mikve Israel in Curacao, as was supposed until now. At the height of its existence in 1645, Kahal Zur Israel had 1,630 members. Aboab was for a long time the rabbi of this prosperous community; as a matter of fact he was the first rabbi serving in the New World.

However, the Portuguese tried to re-conquer the colony from the Dutch. The siege took a long time and the hardship was great. Afterwards Aboab wrote his memories about this time in a Hebrew work "Zecher Asiti Lenifla'oth El": Reminded was I of G'd's Miracles.
The writings of Ishac Aboab, together with the minutes book of the community of Recife (1649-1654) were assembled and published in Hebrew by Joseph David Weitman, rabbi of the community Beth Jacob in Sao Paolo. (8)

Upon his return to Amsterdam in September 1654 he was immediately reinstated in his position of chacham because of seus meritos pasados y presentes – his past and present merits. (9) He earned a salary of 450 guilders and had to hold one sermon per month.

In 1655 he published an important translation. Isaac Aboab, as mentioned, was a cabalist; he was a follower of the Lurian mystical tradition. In his teachings, Isaac Luria (1522-1570) put the emphasis mainly on the deep meaning of daily pious deeds, which would bring the world nearer to a state of perfection. (10) Luria was a native of Safed (Tsefat), where he headed a group of Cabalists. With their philosophy they made the town of Safed famous.

An important representative of the Lurian thought was Abraham Cohen Herrera (ca.1570-1635), who lived part of his life in Amsterdam. Cohen Herrera wrote in Spanish the cabalist-mystical work Puerta del Cielo –Gate to Heaven. Aboab translated this work into Hebrew, entitled 'Shaar Hashamayim’ thus bringing it to the attention of a larger public. The book was printed in 1655 by Emanuel Benveniste.

After the departure of chacham Menasse ben Israel to England in January 1656, Aboab took over some of his tasks. He now had to hold two sermons per month at a salary of 600 guilders. In his position as chacham he was involved in July 1656 in the pronouncement of the ban of Spinoza. After the death of chacham Saul Levi Morteira in 1660, Aboab became head of the rabbinate.

VI
In 1666 a large part of the Sefardic community in Europe got carried away by the belief in the arrival of a Messiah, namely Shabtai Zvi (1626-1676). In Venice and Hamburg people became overwhelmed by the prophecies, visions and wonders connected to the supposed Messiah. Also in Amsterdam the poor as well as the rich became intoxicated. They tied green ribbons to their clothes (green was the color of identifying Shabtai Zvi) and atoned in public for their sins. In the synagogues musical instruments were now allowed. Prominent Amsterdam Sefardim made arrangements to leave for the Holy Land in order to join the Messiah. Aboab too was in this state of intoxication and believed strongly in the 'new king'.

The disenchantment was great when Shabtai Zvi was taken prisoner by the sultan in Constantinople and after being put to the choice in September 1666, between death and conversion to the Islam, he chose the latter. The board in Amsterdam ordered all publications and books referring to him to be destroyed. His name was cursed and all traces of him were obliterated.

Belief in tradition and authority were to take the place of shaken expectations (11).

VII
Aboab's wife Ester died in 1669. She was buried in a new part of the cemetery, which had been bought in 1663. There was plenty of space in that part. Up till that year one was buried in order of entry, but after this expansion of the cemetery there was the possibility to reserve burial spots in advance. Chacham Aboab made use of this possibility and had the tomb of his wife covered with a double stone. On the right side the following text by Aboab was engraved:
 

I shall stow away Ester
Until the time comes
That she shall return and
Her soul shall rejoice in happiness.
Because her end came in the night

(Translation by Moshe Mossel, Jerusalem.The original Hebrew text can be found in the book by D. Henriques de Castro Mz-Selected Gravestones from the Dutch Portuguese Jewish Cemetery at Ouderkerk aan de Amstel with Descriptions and Biographical Notes. p. 40 of the Engish version (12))


Above the text is a wreath of leaves with the text ' a virtuous woman is the jewel of her husband '. Underneath the text on the tombstone a reclining hour-glass is engraved.

Aboab remarried with Sara, whom he also survived. David Henriques de Castro discovered in the nineteenth century a small blue tombstone very near the double tombstone. According to this stone she passed away in 1690. (13)

VIII
In 1670 when it turned out that the synagogue at the Houtgracht became too small, Aboab took the initiative to argue for the building of a new synagogue instead of enlarging the existing one. On November 23rd, 1670 he held an enthusiasm-inspiring sermon after which the amount of approximately 40,000 guilders was offered. His exertions were rewarded and it was decided to buy a piece of land near the synagogue at the Houtgracht. The construction suffered delays because of the war against England and a heavy storm. However, on Friday, August 2nd, 1675 the building was inaugurated in the presence of Mayors, Aldermen and other notables. The imposing building was lit up with candles. Three encircling were made carrying Tora Scrolls and Chacham Aboab carried the first Tora Scroll. The songs that were sung during the three rounds were composed by Aboab himself and Solomon d'Oliveyra.

The name of Aboab is intertwined ingeniously in the Hebrew words above the entrance to the synagogue. The text reads as follows: 'But I shall enter Your House
through your greatness and mercifulness'. (Psalm 5:8).

According to tradition a date/year can be made up from the letters/numbers of an aphorism. These words are then often indicated by little stars or other signs. In this case the last word is 'bet-cha': meaning Your House, the letters beth-yud-tav-kav having the value of 2+10+400+20. These total up to (5)432 = 1671/1672.
It is not clear whether this year refers to the real start of the building activities or to the date that the building actually should have been completed.

The name of Aboab is spread over two words, one after the other. The fifth word Avu=aleph-beth-wav-aleph and the first letter of the last word, the already mentioned beth-cha. In this way his name, spelled aleph(a)-beth(b)-wav (like o)-aleph-beth is cleverly intertwined in the text.

The building still is impressive. The Czech writer Egon Kisch wrote: It is in no way a house of assembly for outcasts, the house neither withered nor tending to hide, a beautiful building, a Jewish cathedral. (14)

Isaac Aboab was and is still being honored for his contribution to the realization of the house of prayer. "Honor to his memory for this meritorious work! For this a laurel was put on his grave!" wrote David Henrigues de Castro (15).

IX
The period of about 1670 till about 1685 was a turbulent one in the history of the Talmud Torah. There were constant conflicts about money between the management and the members of the community (family Del Sotto), about the prohibition to buy poultry from the Ashkenazi Jews (Abarbanel), about choices of marital partners (families Curiel and Aboab), about the place persons were assigned in the new synagogue (Isack Henriques Coutinho), or about the text of the hashkava at the grave of a deceased (families Pereira and de Mercado).
The conflicts had one similarity: rebellion against the authority of the parnassim. (16) These quarrels always came down to the same: the families who were in opposition wanted to establish their own community and home synagogue. Obviously the parnassim strongly opposed and were supported by the Amsterdam municipal authorities. The aldermen passed a ruling in 1680 at the request of a Portuguese Jew who was not permitted to establish a home synagogue: that as long as he wanted to be Jewish he would have to keep to the regulations of the church.

Aboab fulfilled an important role in all these conflicts. It appears from the events that the members of the community mostly did not listen at all to the parnassim, but in the end they recognized the authority of the chachamim. In all these conflicts Aboab stood steadfast behind the parnassim and tried to restore the peace. He was successful: in the end the rebellious families returned to the Talmud Torah.

One of the quarrels was about the text of the hashkava used for David de Mercado who died in 1682. A group of family members and friends, amongst whom Jacob Israel Pereira and his sons did not agree with the leadership nor with the Chief Rabbis. The documents have been kept in the notary's archives; we can follow this conflict almost by the day.

Chacham Aboab also handed a declaration to the notary. He told in Dutch what he had experienced at the cemetery in Ouderkerk and in the synagogue. In the cemetery a quarrel broke out about the text of the hashkava. The family and friends of David de Mercado wanted to perform the hashkava as it was phrased originally: haham asalem. Aboab translated this for the notary as 'a wise and perfect preacher'. But because the leadership and the rabbis were of the opinion that David de Mercado had been a member of the community just like all the others, they refused to honor him this way. A row broke out and many hard words were said. Because chacham Aboab and chacham Sasportas(who would succeed Aboab after his death) could not calm the people's mood they both left Ouderkerk in haste in a boat. A few days later the quarrel was continued in the synagogue. There was a great row and the parnassim did not succeed to restore order. At last the chachamim raised their voices to tell them to be quiet and so they calmed down.

X
Isaac Aboab was absorbed in his studies until his death.

When he was about 75 years old he wrote a commentary to the Pentateuch: Paraphrasis comentada sobre el Pentateucho. The book was published by Jacob de Cordova in 1681.

During the last years of his life Aboab was blind. Even though the light in his eyes was darkened, he saw the Light better through study and contemplation, said Solomon d'Oliveira in a speech at his grave. (17)

Aboab was laid to rest next to his first wife Ester. The double tombstone now got the text on the left side: 'Tombstone of the very wise and excellent rabbi (…) spiritual head and leader of theological studies at the Holy Community in Amsterdam, who was called to the divine fields of heaven on Saturday, 27 Adar II of the year 5453 (April 4th, 1693). For 70 years he was head of this community and reached the age of 88 years (…). (18) Above the text are engraved a pomegranate branch and an olive branch hanging from a crown, beneath the text lies an hourglass and between both sides stands a column with an open book and a little crown as well as on one page a burning candle. Beneath this is a text from Yesaya:- 'and your virtue is your vanguard', and out of a cloud appears an arm of which the hand holds a crowned F. The F refers to Fonseca. A two-armed lamp is placed above both slabs with the text (19).

As previously mentioned, his collection of books was put up for sale. From the catalogue printed in 1693 by David Tartas, we know that had owned more than 400 books, most of which were in the Hebrew language. In this collection there obviously were not only a great number of cabala works, but also philosophical works from Jewish authors like Maimonides and non-Jewish ones like Aristotle.

His name lived on, also in a literary sense. After his death his name and the date of his death were printed on each side of the Sephardic Ketuba, the marriage settlement. These forms were still in use after tens of years.
 

Lydia Hagoort and Ben Noach

Translation from the original:Nina Mayer
Final editing:Trudi Asscher, Ben Noach

The Dutch original with complete footnotes was published in MISJPOGE, the quarterly of the Netherlands Society for Jewish Genealogy(NKvJG).
The article can be found at: http://www.nljewgen.org/?page_id=1257

All rights reserved.

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

34 minutter siden, Lars E. Øyane skrev:

Eg har prøvd å finna linken du oppgjev i innlegg #40, men eg får det ikkje til, so noko gjer eg nok galt.  Derimot ser eg at det her vert referert til ei Rachel PAS som er fødd i Antwerpen i 1631 - kanskje ei søster av Felipa?

 

Dette var feil lenke Lars, ikke den jeg trodde det var.Beklager.

Rart du ikke får åpnet den ?  https://www.dutchjewry.org/tree_search.shtml

 

Ivar

[Ivar Moe]

Litt om alias bruken vedrørende navnet Azevedo og navnet Aboab. Alt hentet fra databasen til Sefardere .

 

Dette åpner nye spennende dører.....

 

Introduction

 

  When Portuguese conversos fled Portugal to settle in Amsterdam they were finally able to openly return to Judaism. However, they often had relatives and family still trapped in Portugal. These family contacts along with the Amsterdam Jews ability to speak both Portuguese and Dutch were great assets in their international trade ventures but also posed risks. To avoid endangering their relatives and friends in Portugal, the Portuguese Jews used aliases in their transactions with them.
  These alias names can be difficult to disentangle. Vibeke Sealtiël Olsen went through the records to determine the following:

- Two Sephardim of Amsterdam (father Isac and son Jacob) were known by three Portuguese aliases: Antonio Hidalgo o Velho (1657), Antonio Hidalgo Ouelho (1659) and Antonio Hidalgo (1659, 1665).
- Antonio Hidalgo o Velho was known as Antonio Cortissos (1657).
- Antonio Hidalgo Ouelho was known as Antonio da Costa Cortissos (1659).
- Antonie Hidalgo was known as Jacob Semah Cortissos (1665).
- Jacob Semach was known as Jacob Cortissos (1657), and Jacob Cortissos was known as Antonio Hidalgo (1659) and Antonio Hidalgo Elmaz (1659).
- The Jewish name of Antonio da Costa Cortissos was Isac. Isac used the names Isac Semas (1647), Isac Semach (1648), and Isac Semach Cortissos (1647).
- The aliases of these three names were: Antonio da Costa Cortissos (1647, 1648) and Antonio da Costa (Cortissos) (1647).
- Antonio da Costa (Cortissos) was also known by the Dutch name Teunis van den Coster (1657).
So these two persons (Isac and Jacob) both used the alias name Antonio and together they were known by fourteen different names.
- From JewishGen's Family Tree of the Jewish People: Isaac was born about 1595, Segovia, Spain. He died in 1657 in Amsterdam. His wife was Rebecca Leonora Da Costa (born: Abt 1599, married: Abt 1620, died: 1643). They had a daughter Rachel and a son Jacob. If these were the only two children, then we also know the given names of Isaac's parents.
- We also see that Isaac was married two times, as he married Abigael Gomes in 1648 according to Trouwen in Mokum. (Abigail Gomes herself also used Clara Gomes as an alias).

   In the first half of the 20th century Abraham de Mordechai Vaz Dias went through the notarial records kept at the Amsterdam stadarchief and used these notarial records to identify many of the aliases used. He prepared an index consisting of separate index cards (archive no. 5059, inventory nos. 267 and 268) giving the Jewish name and its corresponding aliase as well as the specific notarial record in which he identified that alias.
  Vibeke Sealtiël Olsen carefully transcribed the Vaz Dias card index collection into a database which she graciously made available to SephardicGen. Many of the surnames are composite surnames (Da Costa, D'Aguire, etc.) which creates problems in searching for a specific name. It is therefore recommended that one searches this database using the "contains" search term.

 

		Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
1		Rodrigues d' Azevedo		Abraham		Torres, de		manuel		1685
2		Azevedo, D'		Antonio		Salom		Salomoh		1652
3		Azevedo, D'		Beatrice		Salom		Rifica		1659
4		Azevedo, D'		Branca		Salom		Debora		1659
5		Lopes d' Azevedo		Esteran		Gomes (de Lisboa)		Pero		1623
6		Lopes d' Azevedo		Francisco		Gomes Barbosa		Ruy		1649
7		Lopes d' Azevedo		Dr. Francisco		Tarar III		Dr. Abraham		1625
8		Azevedo, D'		Gonzalo		Azevedo, de		Jacob		1670
9		Azevedo, D'		Gonzalo		Janssen van Geel		Henrique		1664
10		Azevedo, D'		Henrique		Cohen		Isak		1659
11		Azevedo, D'		Isack		Sotte, de		Joao		1667
12		Azevedo, D'		Isack		Fonseca Cardozo, da		Joao		1667
13		Azevedo, D'		Isabella		Salom		Lea		1659
14		Azevedo, D'		Jacob		Janssen van Geel		Hendrik		1660
15		Azevedo, D'		Jacob		Gonsalves Azzoys		Pedro		1670
16		Azevedo, De		Jacob		Dazevedo		Gonsalo		1670
17		Azevedo, D'		Johanna		Salom		Judith		1659
18		Azevedo, D'		Joseph		Janssen van Geel		Pieter		1684
19		Azevedo, D'		Lucietia		Salom		Hester		1659
20		Azevedo, D'		Miguel		Salom		Aron		1659

		Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
21		Azevedo, D'		Violante		Salom		Rachel		1659
22		Azevedo, D'		Isabeela		Salom		Lea		1659
23		Azevedo, D'		Beatrice		Salom		Rifica		1659
24		Azevedo, D'		Lucretia		Salom		Hester		1659
25		Azevedo, D'		Branca		Salom		Debora		1659
26		Azevedo, D'		Johanna		Salom		Judith		1659

 

 

ABOAB

 

		Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
1		Aboab		Abraham		Floris Cardoso		Francisco		1658
2		Aboab		Abraham		Jenis		Denis		1639
3		Aboab		Abraham		Faleiro		Antonio		1618
4		Aboab		Abraham		Roiz Cardozo		Alfonso		1616
5		Aboab		Abraham		Yanes		Denis		1620
6		Aboab		Benjamin		Dias de Pas		Michel		1661
7		Aboab		Benjamin		Costa Furtado, De		Joan		1698
8		Aboab		Daniel		Pas, De		Anthonio		1655
9		Aboab		David		Dias de Pas		Duarte		1655
10		Aboab		Duarte		Dias de Pas		Duarte		1671
11		Aboab		Isac		Jennes		Isay		1662
12		Aboab		Isaac		Dias		Diego		1672
13		Aboab		Isaac		Dias de Paz		Simon		1679
14		Aboab		Matathia		Dias Henrigues		Manuel		1634
15		Aboab		Mozes		Dias de paz		Mozes		1707
16		Aboab		Mozes		Gomes de Pas		Rafael		1666
17		Aboab		Mozes		Dias		Duarte		1672
18		Aboab		Rachel		Nunes		Branca		1660
19		Aboab		Rafael		Berido, De		Antonio		1618
20		Aboab		Samuel		Pas, De		Jan		1668

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Ivar Moe]

Paz/Pas navnet og aliaser.

 

	Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
1		Costa de paz, da		Bento		Costa, da		Baruch		1654
2		Paz, de		Jean		Salom		Selomo		1673
3		Mendes de Paz		Maria		Aboab		Sara		1658
4		Paz, de		Mayor		Salom		Lea		1673/78

 

		Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
1		Pas, de		André		Salom		Dr. Mozeh Rafael		1707
2		Pas, de		Anthonio		Aboab		Daniel		1655
3		Lopes Pas		Antonio		Salom		Daniel		1618
4		Sanches de Pas		Antonio		Aboab		Samuel		1657
5		Pas, de		Aron		Maestro		Aron		1646
6		Saljade de Pas		Diego		Senior		Abraham		1652
7		Dias de Pas		Duarte		Aboab		David		1655
8		Dias de Pas		Duarte		Aboab		Duarte		1671
9		Pas, de		Elias		Dias Nunes		Simon		1655
10		Pas, de		Elias		Bartosa		Simao		1657
11		Aboab de Pas		Isak		Dias de Pas		Simon		1660
12		Castro de Pas		Isak		Tartas		Isak		1689
13		Crasto de Pas		Jacob		Tartas		Jacob		1682
14		Pas, de		Jan		Aboab		Samuel		1668
15		Pas, de		Jan		Salom d'Azevedo		Mozes		1680
16		Pas, de		Jean		Salom		Selomo		1673
17		Pas, de		Josua		Maestro		Josua		1650
18		Pas, de		Michiel		Salom		Isak		1682
19		Dias de Pas		Michiel		Aboab		Benjamin		1661
20		Dias de Pas		Mozes		Aboab		Mozes		1695/

 

		Family Name		Given Name		Alias Family Name		Alias Given Name		Year
21		Gomes de Pas		Rafael		Aboab		Mozes		1666
22		Dias de Pas		Simon		Aboaf de Pas		Isak		1660
23		Dias de Pas		Simon		Aboab		Isak		1679
24		Nahamias Pascoa		David		Lopes		Pasqual		1616
25		Alvares de Pas		Rodrigo		Justo		Joshoua		1631

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for nye store og utfordrande innlegg.  Her var det mykje å lesa, og mykje å læra!

 

Det er nok eit langt stykke att til eg har forstått all dei ulike samanhangane her med dei talrike alias-ane etc.  Eg finn att Moses Salom d'Azevedo som alias Jan de PAS (frå 1680), so den er grei, men eg finn ikkje kona hans Rachel Salom.  Det kan vel ikkje vera ho som er meint berre 3 år gamal i 1659 som Violante d'AZEVEDO.  Heller ikkje finn eg foreldri deira.  Far hans skulle vera Salomon Salom alias Antonio de PAS, medan far hennar var David Salom alias André de PAS.

 

Kanskje du, Ivar, òg kunne henta fram dei personane som har «Family Name» SALOM?

 

Elles kan eg ikkje sjå at eg har noki direkte tilknytting til nokon med namnet ABOAB - dei var vel inngifte...

 

Eg ser elles ættenamnet NUNES dukker opp, det var jo jentenamnet til Sipora alias Guimar NUNES (nr. #9)...  Nunes finst særleg som ættenamn i Portugal og i Brasil, medan Guimar er ein kommune på spanske Tenerife!

 

Dette er i høgste grad ein svært so «internasjonal» huslyd der Nederland og Belgia berre var ein «sekundærbustad» for ætter som hadde butt i Spania eller helst i Portugal i mange hundre år!

 

Elles syner eg spesielt til spørsmåli mine frå innlegg #38 og #39:

 

** Kvifor er ikkje Rachel (#3) oppskriven som søster av «brasilianaren», endå om alt tyder på at ho må høyra til same huslyden?

 

** So er eg ikkje i stand til å finna gravferdene til #4 Salomon, som me veit døydde før 1686, samt til kona #5 Philippa (Felipa)?  Kanskje du har betre hell med deg?  Dei bør jo òg vera gravlagde i Amsterdam?

 

** Er det mogeleg å søkja gravferdsregisteret etter kvar gravi ligg?  Eg finn ingen referanse til dei som har ansvaret for dette registeret!!?

 

Nok ein kjempetakk for framifrå bistand med å samla fakta om denne huslyden!

[Ivar Moe]

Hei igjen Lars

 

Anbefaler på det sterkeste at du bruker lenkene i #25. Selv har jeg smått med tid til å sjekke alt som står der så da går du garantert glipp av mange kilder til din kones slekt.

 

Denne basene med aliaser er sammefattet/laget av ----List of 1888 alias names used by  Sephardic Jews in Amsterdam Database prepared by Vibeke Sealtiël Olsen - noe som i seg selv bør være interessant. Lever hun i beste velgående og er hun norsk/dansk/ etc.

https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/vazDiasSrchFrm.html

 

https://www.sephardicgen.com/

 

Som sagt. Alt er servert i #25

 

PS. savner Grethe F.  her til å holde orden/kontroll på  oss litt hastige  gamle hannkatter 😁

 

Mvh

Ivar

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Ivar for ei ny melding!

 

Det er alltid kjekt å ha Grethe i nabolaget, og ho hadde kanskje greidd å finna ut detaljar som me ikkje har finne...

 

Men uansett, so har eg no sett litt meir på desse databasane som du syner til.  Eg lyt likevel tilstå at eg framleis manglar den heilt store forståingi.  Eg tykkjer ikkje alt stemmer med desse «alias»-namni, når dei til dømes har kalla David d'AZEVEDO for Luis, medan eg har han som André...

 

Eg har ikkje greidd å finna nokon referanse (mail-adresse) til Vibeke OLSEN, men eg har derimot tillete meg å skriva til Jeff Malka som oppfordrar til kontakt dersom me har vanskar med basane.  So får me sjå om han kjem med nye tips...

 

Eg fekk forresten ved eitt av søki mine opp denne lista på «velkjende» namn, og nettopp det faktum at Rachel og Judith vert refererte til med årstalet 1659, KAN tyda på at dei er søsken og at me har dei rette foreldri, David og Ribka, som soleis må vera attendekomne frå Surinam/Brasil!  Eitt av spørsmåli mine til Jeff Malka går på tolking av dette årstalet...

 

https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/vazDiasSearchEngine.php?FamilyNameKind=contains&FamilyNameSoundex=&FamilyNameMax=salom&GivenNameKind=exact&GivenNameMax=&AliasFamilyNameKind=contains&AliasFamilyNameSoundex=&AliasFamilyNameMax=evedo&AliasGivenNameSoundex=A536&AliasGivenNameKind=sounds&AliasGivenNameMax=&YearKind=exact&YearMax=&offset=1&pagesize=20

 

Elles finn eg framleis ikkje ut av kyrkjegardskorti.  Kanskje eg burde freista over helgji å ringja til den portugisiske jødekyrkja i Amsterdam.  Dei bør vita kven som har ansvaret for kartoteket...!?

 

Ein ny kjempetakk til deg, Ivar, for ei aktiv veke, og nyt helgji med ekte vintervêr!

[Ivar Moe]

Eg har ikkje greidd å finna nokon referanse (mail-adresse) til Vibeke OLSEN, men eg har derimot tillete meg å skriva til Jeff Malka som oppfordrar til kontakt dersom me har vanskar med basane.  So får me sjå om han kjem med nye tips...

 

Spennende Lars. Alltid vært imponert over at du tar kontakt med  hvem det måtte være hvor enn i verden det er.  Skikkelig spennende å se hva som kommer ut av det. Håper det blir noen nye spor, for dette er rimelig vanskelig utfra det jeg er vant til i Norge   og andre  land/steder jeg har søkt etter slekt.

 

Mvh

Ivar

 

Endret Februar 28, 2020 av Ivar Moe