[#64678] Navnet Jæger/ Læger på Kongsberg 1700 - tallet

[Larry Halvorsen]

Maybe Ingbret Olsen was just a neighbor from the paddocks.  Some other names in the skifte were Niels Michelsen (could this be Niels Mikkelsen Hassel?) and Hans Marthinsen.  After another look I could not see Hans Andersen Weido either. I was wrong about Evje  following Anne Andersdatter, looks more like E??d Sogn.

 

Bapt. of Ingbreth Andersen's son Morton:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316610033  

 

I have not been able to tie Lars Eriksen Jaeger b. ca 1718 in Hokksund, Ovre Eiker to the rest of the family.  Am I missing an obvious connection?

[Dag Thorsdalen]

I don't know where you have the names Hans Michelsen and Hans Marthinsen from. The other names I am able to find in this probate are Hans Jochum Gierulf and Hans Stamp, both legal officers conducting the probate. 

 

I don't know who Ingebret Andersen was. He did not marry in Kongsberg, neither is he mentioned in the censuses of 1723/24 where citizens not directly involved in mining are registered separatly, and Morten was his only child baptized in Kongsberg. And you did not have to be a relative to be a sponsor for someone's child. I am afraid I am unable to come any closer to him.

 

Neither do I know who Lars Eriksen Jæger was. No one with that name was baptized neither in Eiker, Kongsberg nor Sandsvær in the late 1710s, and the census of 1732 is the only source I have found him mentioned. I have not seen the originals of this census. This, I will not exclude that his name has been misinterpreted and that it in stead should have been read Hans Eriksen Eeger. Eeger is an old spelling of Eiker, and a lot of those comming from Eiker to Kongsberg were called Eeger, later Eger.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

Hans Marthinsen is to the left of the date 24 July 1750, same paragraph as Ingbret.  Hans is on bottom of first page, right col., under Creature.  The earlier dates, to right of Hans Marthinsen, and the folio references 333 and 339, I assume relate to some land transactions,  would there be any helpful information on Anne?

 

There were a number of Eeger and Egers found in the manntalls and elsewhere that caused me some consternation.  I also saw Eger on some historic maps.  I finally decided they were not Jagers.  Did not know it was and old spelling of Eiker.

[Dag Thorsdalen]

Hans Marchusen (not Marthinsen) was the man they bought their house at Sandsværmoen from in 1750. I do not see any other connection to him.

 

Who Niels (not Hans) Michelsen was, is explained in the probate register. He was married to Boel Isaksdatter, Nils Andersen Jæger's widow. The text itself is, however, a little bit misleading, saying that Boel was a "moster" (mother's sister), not spesified to whom. 

 

Boel's mother's probate showas that it is impossible that she in any way could have been a mother's sister:

Boel Maria Isachsdtr - Probate register for Kongsberg town bailiff, Overbergamtet and Sønnafjelske bergamt 1705-1801 - The Digital Archive (digitalarkivet.no) 

 

It is may experience  that in-law relationships quit often are described incorrectly in the probates. As the widow of Ole's brother she might have been described as an aunt, which has been mis interpreted as mother's sister since her prestent husband wasn't Ole's brother. The reason why they was mentioned was because some utensils were shared by them and Ole/Anne.

 

So, rather than making herself (or her persent husband) a direct relative, it is my view that this is a confirmation that Nils Andersen Jæger was Ole's brother.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

 Niels Mikkelsen Hassel is the person I have marrying Boel on 13 Apr 1754 in Kongsberg.  It was this Niels I was thinking  was the Michelsen person named in Anne Andersdatter's skifte.  Don't know why I wrote Hans.  It is good that Nils is confirmed as Ole's brother, as I never had a bapt. for him.  I will take a look at the communicants list prior to the birth of Anne & Oles' first child, perhaps that will show something.  I try to follow the maternal side as much as I can, but Anne may be a dead end.

[Larry Halvorsen]

Some searching through the communicants list for Jagers -Kongsberg (1734-1737) again found Berthel Jager and wife Anne several times, as well as, Hans (Hansen) Jager who was listed by himself 3x. No clear answers to Anne Andersdatters parentage, but found some possible clues:

 

 Ole Andersen Jager and wife Anne (Andersdatter)are also found among the communicants, for the first time in early 1736 : 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080217 -page 226

 

I had believed they were married in November 1736, but that apparently was a mistake since they are listed, as a husband and wife are, in the communicants.  The names shown just below them is for a Anders Olsen Kingsle and Ane with son Lars and a Samuel Kingsle.  Does being on the next line mean anything? Also, on prior page 224 is Jacob Andersen and Anne Andersdatter (possible brother and sister?); place they came from un-readable.  The page below shows another Anne followed by a  place ? Wannem.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080124

 

On page 407, 26 May of 1758 (everyday) there is an Ole Christoffersen Stavlum with Johanna Andersdatter.  Is Ole a brother of  Anders Christoffersen Schodtzelven? Is Johanna his wife?  On same page is Hans Andersen Jager and second wife Christine Marie Nielsdatter Gaas.

 

 

Earlier in the Communicants (1734; page 109) an Anders Jager is found with wife Nielsabeth.  Could Anders be another son of Anders Christoffersen Schodtzelven?

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080101

[Larry Halvorsen]

I believe the 26 May entry in my previous should be 1757.  Link below:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311405070408

 

I failed to keep a good listing of Giager and Geiger spellings of Jager/Jaeger.  Clearly some are Jagers such as page 193 (1734) and references to Karen and Ingebor Giager pps 177, 197.  However, there are other Geigers clearly separate surnames.

[Dag Thorsdalen]

Obviously, it is them listed as man and wife on 1736-03-28. The question is whether this is corrector or not, i.e. that they “just” were betrothed. If so, they might be found as married another time later that year. But such a couple is not to be found. On the other hand, on 1736-10-28 I find Ole Andersen and betrothed girl Anne Andersdatter:

SAKO, Kongsberg kirkebøker, SAKO/A-22/M/Ma/L0001Communicants register no. 1, 1731-1739, p. 258

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080249

 

The question is, of course: Is this the same couple as seven months earlier? If so, the 1736-03-28 record is incorrect. If not, they must have married outside Kongsberg and Eiker.

 

The answer might lay in 1737; is it possible to find both couples that year or just your Ole and Anne.

 

I am not sure how much stress it should be laid on the different spellings of the surname Jæger. I see that there are at least 5 or 6 different handwritings in this protocol during the 1730s, and each one of them used their own private orthography.

 

Anders Olsen Kingsle is in the 1732-census listed as 46 years old, married and having two children, both on the payroll. That was Lars and Samuel. This excludes him as Anne’s father.

 

Jacob Andersen and Anne Andersdatter are listed as “Fæster-folck”, i.e. betrotted. Anders is a very common Norwegian name. Thus, you will find dozens of Anderssons and Andersdaughers in the records, but without any other sign of connection than the same patronymic, it is impossible to pick them out as more or less likely siblings than the rest of those sharing the same patronymic.

 

Ole Christophersen Stavlum is in the 1765-census listed to be 42 years old. That means that he was born after Anders Christophersen died at the age of 49. I find it hard to believed that thy were brothers. Ole was married to Johanne Maria Andersdatter Skjold. According to probates in her family, there is no place for Anne Andersdatter as her sister.

 

The Anders Jæger with wife Nielsbeth in 1734 is a typo. His surname was Gjeter (often witten Jæter and similar), i.e. shepherd. His patronymic was Andersen. Nielsabeth’s patronymic was Nilsdatter.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

Very difficult dealing with common names like Anders, Ole, Christian and Siri.  Early on I confused two Siri Olsdatters and wasted a lot of time.  When I saw Stavlum farm I thought I might of had something with Johanne Maria Andersdatter.   I should have made note of the Geigers as I went along, as some of them, I believe, were Jagers.  Pretty sure I did not miss any Ole and Anne's.  Looks like a good find in the 1737 link, but no Jager surname is used.  Same problem with the 3 Nov 1736 marriage record --no Jager, so it could be another Ole Andersen a very common combination of names.  It makes me wonders how consistent the priests were in writing down the surnames.  Searching from 1737 through 1740 (birth of first known child) is probably warranted.  I noticed there is more information in the everyday communicants book, but there seems to be less miners, and I have found few Jager refs there.  Would that be because miners were always at work on weekdays?

 

BTW found Johanna Andersdatter Schiold again on page 440 in 1758 with Christopher Arnesen Stavlum.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311405070440

[Larry Halvorsen]

Here is Ole Andersen Jager and Anne in 1740 Communicants page 13:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280015

Ole and Anne Anders/  appear twice in the 1741 communicants as well pages 58 and 93. This is well after birth of first child.  1736 still looking like the year of marriage.

 

Two references to Jager imbedded in two entries (the lower part of the left hand page) in the following:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280336.  Curious what this might be?

 

In 1739 (everyday) Communicants pages 333 and 345 there is a reference to Soren Sebjornsen and Mette Gram.  A reference to a Christen Gram ? in the following:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280363  - by Hans Jager - pg 360

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280012  - by Karen Hansdatter - pg. 59 1741

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280049  -by Christoffer anders - pg. 47 -1740 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280081  - by christoffer anders pg. 79

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280092 - by Karen Hansdatter

 

He must have been related to be mentioned so often.

 

There is a Confirmation listing for Boel Marie Iversdatter on pg. 82 -1741 that fits with her marriage/age.

 

I noticed an Ole Andersen Schottis among the communicants.  Would this be the same farm as Jens Christansen Skott, and could Ole possibly be a sibling of Anne?

 

I have seen the word "Secret" in many of the Sol: entries, what does it mean?

Also "1st gang Conf." as in the following:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280040 1st line, left pg. and last line right page

[Dag Thorsdalen]

The problem with the church records before 1739, is that they are of poor quality. One example is that you cannot expect to find a person mentioned with all three names: given name, patronymic and surname. Too often it is given name + either patrionymic or surname only. Another problem is the many different hands, each with his own standard (or lack of standard). 

 

And by the way, in Kongsberg and other cities, it was the sextons, not the priests, who wrote the church records and the communicants’ protocol. From 1739-02-01 it was the same man, sexton Søren Falch, who had that job for almost 50 years.

 

It is easy to identify them with certainty from 1739 onwards, and most of the years you will find them mentioned twice. The challenge is 1737 and 1738; are they the only couple with the combination of names Ole Andersen and Anne Andersdatter or not? 

 

There were at least four others Ole Andersens having babies baptized in the latter part of the 1730s. I am able to identify three of them: Ole Andersen Haspa, Ole Andersen Schultz and Ole Andersen Schiøtt. None of them had a wife with names that might be confused with Anne Andersdatter. The fourth one I have never found mentioned with a surname. Thus, it is hard to say who he and his wife were.

 

It is still my guess that it was Ole Andersen Jæger who married on 1736-11-03. The time passing between their wedding and first child is “perfect”. 

 

The two Jæger entries from 1740 are two girls living with (or perhaps serving) a “jægermester” and a “overjægermester”, two titles meaning master hunter and superior master hunter. Those titles have nothing with the surname Jæger to do.

 

Søren Sebjørnsen (Stavlum) was Ingeborg Sebjørnsdatter’s brother, and Christen Gram was his son with Matte Gram. He was an up-and-coming man; when he died in 1762, he had rose to the rank of “einfahrer”, i.e. inspector, the second in rank of one of the four reviers.

 

“1st time Conf” is follow with and à and initials. The meaning is first time (to the communion), confirmed by the priest with those initials, in this case Magister (Caspar) Wildhagen.

 

Ole Andersen Schott (not Schottis, which is a genitive): Yes, his surname refers to one of the Skott farms nears Skotselv. He is probably the Ole Skott, 56 years old and born on Eiker, mentioned in the 1732-census. That makes him one generation older than Anne.

 

It’s a correct observation that the Jægers not very often are mentioned among the everyday communicants. Most of those you find in that section are either high ranked dignitaries and officials or elderly people. But now and then ordinary workers might be found among them as well, most common those who worked in the city itself.
 

[Larry Halvorsen]

I must admit I did not do thorough research on 1737-38 communicants, portions are very difficult script.  I was solely looking at Jaegers at some point.  There could have been Ole Andersen's + Anne patronymic only that were missed.

 

Concerning Hans Hansen Jaeger:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280363

This 1739 link refers to him as Enkemand.  Would that affect the discussion in your survey?

 

The last link in my Sat 2:34 post (0092) is not for Karen Hansdatter (Jaeger).  The entry just says Karen.  This should be Christen's wife Karen Pedersdatter.  Do you have an explanation for the four previous links, as to why Christen would be mentioned so much by the family that year?

 

Any farm or other reason why Christen Gram is a Gram vs. Stavlum?

Is Gram also written Gran, as per the Parish?

 

Some of the annotations in the communicants list is puzzling.  When "ober" is used does relate to the line above?

I mentioned "Secret" previously, is that just a sol: that is unnamed?

[Dag Thorsdalen]

8 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Concerning Hans Hansen Jaeger:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280363

This 1739 link refers to him as Enkemand.  Would that affect the discussion in your survey?

 

It might be a little bit confusing discussing this on two different platforms, both here and by mail. When you asked about Hans Jæger, I thought that you meant the father Hans Sebjørnsen Stavlum or Jæger (c1666-1743) in stead of his son Hans Hansen Jæger (1702-1737).

 

It was the son who was a recruited soldier when he died. The words used about him are "gevorben soldat". In the modern Norwegian army his title would have been "grenadier". Miners were not title to be drafted or enlisted, but som of them, like him volumteered; they signed a contract to serve for a number of years.

 

This link is for his father, Hans Sebjørnsen. It reads "Hans Jæger gl. Enkemand hos Christen Gram", i.e. Hans Jæger old widower (living) with Christen Gram. That means that he lived with his nephew (his brother's son).

 

På 1.1.2022 den 20.34, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280012  - by Karen Hansdatter - pg. 59 1741

Karen Hansd. Jæger t(iener) hos Christen Gram, i.e. Karen Hansdatter Jæger serving Christen Gram.

 

På 1.1.2022 den 20.34, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280049  -by Christoffer anders - pg. 47 -1740

Christopher Anderss. Jæger h(and) hos Christen Gram, i.e. Christopher Andersen Jæger living with Christen Gram.

 

På 1.1.2022 den 20.34, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404280081  - by christoffer anders pg. 79

Christopher Anderss. Jæger h(and) log(ierer) hos Christen Gram, i.e. Christopher Andersen Jæger lodging with Chisten Gram. 

 

The explanation is probably that Christen Gram had taken over his father's house and had a number of Stavlum/Jæger family members living with him.

 

When he is mentioned with wife Karen, it is his first wife Karen Pedersdatter who is meant.

 

Gram is not a farm name. Here you might read about the origin of the Gram Family: 

Gram (slekt) – Slektshistoriewiki (genealogi.no) 

 

If you look at his baptism record, you will see that he was given his Gram surname as a "baptism present". This was not unusual when the mother had a high status surname. And I guess that this surname served him well in his successful career.

 

 

9 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Some of the annotations in the communicants list is puzzling.  When "ober" is used does relate to the line above?

No, "ober" is German for upper, and was used in titles and institution names only. As a reference the Norwegian "over" would have been used.

 

9 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

I mentioned "Secret" previously, is that just a sol: that is unnamed?

To enable med to comment on this, you have to show me an example on the use of this "Secret". I do not recall I have seen that mentioned. Or is it as simple as short for Secretær, i.e. secretary?

 

 

9 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

I must admit I did not do thorough research on 1737-38 communicants, portions are very difficult script.  I was solely looking at Jaegers at some point.  There could have been Ole Andersen's + Anne patronymic only that were missed.

 

My advice is to concentrate on this in stead of more distant family members. If you should have any hope of finding something leading to Anne Andersdatter's origin, it is my opinion that it might be found in the first years after she married. Later years are probably too late.

 

In addition, I would have given priority to find out more about who Anders Hansen and wife Helle Andersdatter, mentioned in the baptism record of their first son Anders 1737-09-29, was. Are they mentioned in the communicants book, and with more information the just their names?

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

Thanks for pointing out Anders Hansen and his wife as sponsors.  I did not have the first Anders (9-9-1737) listed.  I would have picked him up eventually as I worked through the survey.  I agree   -- the first born sponsors could include some of her close family members.

[Larry Halvorsen]

An Ole Andersen and Anne Andersdatter took communion on 28 Oct 1736.  See below.  She is titled pigen, and I believe it indicates they are  to be married.  This must be the couple married Nov. 3 1736.  Doesn't help much to confirm this Ole is Ole Andersen Jaeger. Proximity of 1st born to wedding will have to suffice as proof.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080249

I could not find any Anders Hansen's in the 1736 communicants list attending with a Helle.  There was one with a Gurri, and a widow Helle  with Falentin Olsen.  Perhaps 1737 search will yield more.  The name Helle does not appear much --that should be a help.

[Dag Thorsdalen]

1 time siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

An Ole Andersen and Anne Andersdatter took communion on 28 Oct 1736.  See below.  She is titled pigen, and I believe it indicates they are  to be married.  This must be the couple married Nov. 3 1736.  Doesn't help much to confirm this Ole is Ole Andersen Jaeger. Proximity of 1st born to wedding will have to suffice as proof.

 

This is the same couple I commented on here:

 

På 30.12.2021 den 20.51, Dag Thorsdalen skrev:

Obviously, it is them listed as man and wife on 1736-03-28. The question is whether this is corrector or not, i.e. that they “just” were betrothed. If so, they might be found as married another time later that year. But such a couple is not to be found. On the other hand, on 1736-10-28 I find Ole Andersen and betrothed girl Anne Andersdatter:

SAKO, Kongsberg kirkebøker, SAKO/A-22/M/Ma/L0001Communicants register no. 1, 1731-1739, p. 258

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080249

 

The question is, of course: Is this the same couple as seven months earlier? If so, the 1736-03-28 record is incorrect. If not, they must have married outside Kongsberg and Eiker.

 

The answer might lay in 1737; is it possible to find both couples that year or just your Ole and Anne.

 

 

1 time siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

I could not find any Anders Hansen's in the 1736 communicants list attending with a Helle.  There was one with a Gurri, and a widow Helle  with Falentin Olsen. 

 

Anders Hansen was a quit common name. Guri's full name was Guri Amundsdatter and Falentin (Valentin) Olsen's widow's full name was Helle (or Helga) Henriksdatter Haugen. There is also an Anders Hansen marrying a Helle Didriksdatter on 1737-12-07.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

I found Anders Hansen and Helle on 1 Adventus 1737 as communicants.  I feel it's likely they were the sponsors for the 1st Anders; this looks like a dead end, unless his father was a Hans Andersen.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080290

 

Earlier In 1737 communicants:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080283 this shows Bertel Jager as Enkemand, does this mean Marthe Nilsdatter was a 2nd wife?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080286 Hans Andersen, Christen Gram and Eli Andersdatter mentioned here.  Another Sol: for Christen Gram -- why so many for him?  who is Ingebor, someone's mother?

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080288  Hans Jager Enkemand listed here on rt. page below Christen Gram and Karen. This would be Hans Sebjornsen Jager?, and indicate he was alive in 1737?

 

 

 

 

[Dag Thorsdalen]

17 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

I found Anders Hansen and Helle on 1 Adventus 1737 as communicants.  I feel it's likely they were the sponsors for the 1st Anders; this looks like a dead end, unless his father was a Hans Andersen.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080290

 

"Anders Hansen med trol(loved) Pige Helle Didrichsd." They are not the persons we are looking for.

 

17 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080283 this shows Bertel Jager as Enkemand, does this mean Marthe Nilsdatter was a 2nd wife?

 

Yes. His first wife, Anne Lisbeth Persdatter, was buried on 1737-08-17. And he and Marte Nilsdatter got married on 1738-05-03. Thus, he was a widower for almost 9 months.

 

17 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080286 Hans Andersen, Christen Gram and Eli Andersdatter mentioned here.  Another Sol: for Christen Gram -- why so many for him?  who is Ingebor, someone's mother?

 

"Hans Anderss. Jæger, Sprænger, hos Xten Gram."

"Eli Andersd. Jæger, hos sin Moder Ingeborg Jæger."

 

Christen Gram is mentioned because Hans lived with him. As have mentioned before, he was an up-and comming man, had taken over his father's house and a number of members of the Stavlum/Jæger Family were living there with him. For many of those who did not have a house of their own, the landlord's name is mentioned. Since he was the landlord for some of his realatives, his name is mentioned so often in connection with them.

 

Ingeborg is Ingeborg Sebjørnsdatter. What makes this post particularly interesting, is that she here is mentioned with the surname Jæger. I guess that this means that he children took the surname Jæger from her and not from their father.

 

18 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080288  Hans Jager Enkemand listed here on rt. page below Christen Gram and Karen. This would be Hans Sebjornsen Jager?, and indicate he was alive in 1737?

 

Yes, this is Hans Sebjørnsen. As shown you before, he was buried on 1743-07-23:

SAKO, Kongsberg kirkebøker, SAKO/A-22/F/Fa/L0002Parish register (official) no. I 2, 1721-1743, p. 532-533
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316610283 
 

[Larry Halvorsen]

This seems to be a case of finding out some things, but not what we were looking for.  I did not have Hans burial in 1743.  I did have Bertel's first wife, and should not have been surprised he was a widower.

 

The blessing for a landlord is interesting.  Housing must have been very important for so many to name him multiple times.  Interesting that you could use that to learn who was living with him.  My first thought was that he was sick, but several times he was receiving communion the same day.  So in addition to Hans, daughter Karen and Christopher Andersen Jaeger were living there?

 

Any chance Ingeborg's parents used Jaeger?  If they were farm people, Stavlum would be adequate, wouldn't it?

 

I'll continue looking at communicants at least up until Anders was born. 

[Dag Thorsdalen]

16 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

So in addition to Hans, daughter Karen and Christopher Andersen Jaeger were living there?

 

Yes, according to the records they did so.

 

16 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Any chance Ingeborg's parents used Jaeger?  If they were farm people, Stavlum would be adequate, wouldn't it?

 

Farm people were - with a few exceptions - mentioned with the farm name only. And in this case I have not found any source mentioning them with another name than Stavlum. Thus, it is still a mystery where the name Jæger came from.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

Continuing the Kongsberg Communicants in 1738 and 1739 for Jaegers, etc. :

 

Page 309 - Anne Andersdatter sol: muurmn??  Might not be the correct Anne, but what does this mean?

 

Page 312 (left)- Hans Andersen Jaeger and Eli Hansdatter Jager?? I have Hans Sebjornsens's daughter dying young, could this be a daughter of Hans Andersen?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080303-page 312 

 

Another Gram mentioned, Can't read first name:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080327-page 336 (right) Gram

 

Page 366 - Elen Andersdatter sol: secret Moller??  What does secret mean?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080357

 

Page 330 - Hans Biornsen Jaeger Enkemand ??

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080331

 

Page 368 (right) mentions Lars Ericsen Jager and Christen Gram.  If Lars is living with Christen Gram and other Jagers, he must related? Must be same young man from the manntall.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080359

 

 

Larry

[Larry Halvorsen]

23 hours ago, Larry Halvorsen said:

Continuing the Kongsberg Communicants in 1738 and 1739 for Jaegers, etc. :

 

Page 309 - Anne Andersdatter sol: muurmn??  Might not be the correct Anne, but what does this mean?

 

Page 312 (left)- Hans Andersen Jaeger and Eli Hansdatter Jager?? I have Hans Sebjornsens's daughter dying young, could this be a daughter of Hans Andersen?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080303-page 312 

 

Another Gram mentioned, Can't read first name:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080327-page 336 (right) Gram

 

Page 366 - Elen Andersdatter sol: secret Moller??  What does secret mean?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080357

 

Page 330 - Hans Biornsen Jaeger Enkemand ??

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080331

 

Page 368 (right) mentions Lars Ericsen Jager and Christen Gram.  If Lars is living with Christen Gram and other Jagers, he must related? Must be same young man from the manntall.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080359

 

 

Larry

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10311404080300 is the missing link for Anne Andersdatter pg. 309, in my last post.

 

I thought muurmn might be referring to a mother or mother's mother, but there is a name before that might be Anders?

[Dag Thorsdalen]

Larry, I cannot explain to you everything you don't understand in this source.

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Page 309 - Anne Andersdatter sol: muurmn??  Might not be the correct Anne, but what does this mean?

 

21 timer siden, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

I thought muurmn might be referring to a mother or mother's mother, but there is a name before that might be Anders?

 

Anne Andersd., t. hos And. Muurm. I.e. Anne Andersdatter, Anders or Andreas master mason or bricklayer's maid. t. is short for tiener (moderen tjener), i.e. serves.

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Page 312 (left)- Hans Andersen Jaeger and Eli Hansdatter Jager?? I have Hans Sebjornsens's daughter dying young, could this be a daughter of Hans Andersen?

 

Hans Anders. Jæger & D. Eli Hansd. Jæger. I.e. Hans Andersen Jæger and daughter Eli Hansdatter Jæger.

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Another Gram mentioned, Can't read first name:

 

Anniken Nielsdatter Gram. 

Gram is a family with many branches and a several of them had members living in Kongsberg. Thus, she is peripheral here.

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Page 366 - Elen Andersdatter sol: secret Moller??  What does secret mean?

 

Elen Andersd. t. hos Secret. Möller. I.e. Ellen Andersdatter, Secret(ary) Möller¨s maid.

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Page 330 - Hans Biornsen Jaeger Enkemand ??

 

Hans Biörns. Jæger, gl. opl. Enkemand. I.e. Hans Bjørnsen Jæger, old retired widower. 

I would suspect that Bjørnsen in this case is a mistake for Sebjørnsen. 

 

På 30.1.2022 den 23.28, Larry Halvorsen skrev:

Page 368 (right) mentions Lars Ericsen Jager and Christen Gram.  If Lars is living with Christen Gram and other Jagers, he must related? Must be same young man from the manntall.

 

Yes, this is obviously the same guy as in the manntall. Both here and in some of the other things you are asking about we have the Norwegian preposition "hos", that in most cases should be translated as "with". I guess that you are right that he might be related in some way or another, But since I don't find his baptism in Eiker, I am unable to say exactly how.

 

[Larry Halvorsen]

Dag,

 

Thank you so much for your patience in responding to me posts; I have been beating a dead horse here at this point.  The communicants list requires more knowledge of the language and practices than I have.  It seems strange communicants would name their job and employer as part of the process.  In general, not picking up the abbreviations and conjunctions often sends me down the wrong track.

 

Hans Andersen Jæger and daughter Eli Hansdatter Jæger -  I do not have a Bapt. for daughter Eli; I have no children at all for Hans and Hellene Pedersdatter Hachtner.  Also noted I have two burial dates for Hans?  It is past time to stop the new research, recheck and organize all the new information garnered in the last several months.