Gå til innhold
Arkivverket
Gjest Richard Hellesen

[#1233] "Fridriksh. Distr. Strom" (?)

Recommended Posts

Gjest Richard Hellesen

Found the above birthplace listed in military examination board records for Bergen--trying to find out where it is! Thanks for your help!

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Kristian Hunskaar

My guess would be:Fridriksh. Distr. = Fredrikshald districtFredrishald (now called Halden) is a city in the south-eastern corner of Norway, close to Sweden. Perhaps Strom (or Strøm) is a locality there.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Richard Hellesen

Thank you! A quick look at the map reveals that there is, near Halden, a city called Stromstad in Sweden. I suspect you are exactly right--and also that this will take me into the mysteries of the Swedish/Norwegian border in the 18th century...(wish me luck...) Thanks again! RH

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Kristian Hunskaar

I doubt that someone would refer to a city in Sweden as a part of a Norwegian district. I would rather think of Strøm as a name of a farm in the neighbourhood of Halden, although I haven't found anyone when searching.Anyway; good luck!

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Gunleif Taraldsen

If a farm or place named Strøm does not excist in the vicinity of Halden, could Strøm perhaps refer to a commanding officer in that region? (Read "Fridrikshald, District Strom")

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Gunleif Taraldsen

After some research I have another suggestion: The union of Norway and Denmark excisted until 1814. You are probably searching the birthplace of the sailor (matros) Andreas Dufra who got married in Bergen in 1802? Dufra is certainly not a typical norwegian name, so "Fridriksh." may refer to the danish city Frederikshavn north-east in Jylland. "Strom" may refer to a place there or even to the name of the minister in that parish. (I also have a wage recollection of a north german city called Friedrichshafen)

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Kjell Hamberg

Then who are the married couple Anders Due and Sarah Middelthun in the Bergen 1801 census?

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Richard Hellesen

To all who have replied: you are brilliant. Andreas Dufra was in fact my great-great-great-great grandfather; the "Dufra" surname--garbled a number of times through family records--has always been a mystery to us, because it is so clearly not a typical Norwegian surname. I won't bore you with the long story, but the Digitalarkivet made it possible to find Andreas Dufra at all, after numerous dead-ends. (Side note: I think he and Anders Due are one in the same, based on what I've come to learn of Sarah Middelthun, also online. Knowing how badly "Hellesen" has been mangled in American records, "Due" for "Dufra" doesn't seem like an extreme clerical error--but correct me if I'm wrong...) Anyway: tracking down the source of "Dufra" has been the biggest challenge; thanks for your ideas and suggestions, and in advance for anything else you think of! (Wish I could reciprocate, but I doubt many of you are looking for Californians who emigrated to Norway...) All the best-- RH

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Gunleif Taraldsen

Some more info for clarifcation (or confusion?): By checking the "digital" birth records for Bergen, it seems like Andreas and Sara (Sahra, Sarah) got two children while living in Bergen, namely Sahra Maria in 1805 and Jacob in 1808. However, in 1805 their surnames were written Dufwa! This swedish-looking name seems equivivalent to the danish/norwegian Due. (May be Halden or Sweden is the right place?) If one assumes that the persons who recorded the name wrote it the way they interpreted the sound, which is very likely, this could be the reason why it is written Due in 1801 census.I tend to agree with you that Anders in 1801 is identical to Andreas in 1802; they were both "matros" and the wives had identical names. However the age difference given in 1801 versus 1805 is big. Why they were said to be married in 1801 while the wedding took place in August 1802 is also a bit funny; checking the original church record (Korskirken) may give the answer. Such a check could also give additional information regarding the place of birth, as that was normally recorded together with the names of the best men. Likewise when the children were christened, the godfathers/mothers are normally recorded. Good luck in your further research!

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Tor Andersen

As you probably already know the norwegian 'due' means the bird 'dove'. Today this bird is called 'duva' in swedish but the sound of it is more like 'dufva'. So that is has been written like that or even 'dufwa' in earlier days seems likely. In that case 'dufra' could be a misreading from a bad 'v' in 'dufva'.I do not understand the age difference mentioned by Gunleif Taraldsen. As far as I can see the ages given in 1801 will be in the ranges reported in 1815. The remark given in 1805 is where they live and not their age.The wedding in 1802 fits smoothly within the other weddings so that is probably correct.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Gunleif Taraldsen

Just to clarify, Tor: Census 1801:Anders Due age 49. "Undersøkelseskommisjonen 1804/05: Andreas Dufra age 42. This gives a mis-match of a decade. Also here it could be beneficial to consult the original records. I am unfortenately not aware of info related to 1815.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Tor Andersen

OK. I thought you were refering to the christning of their child. My reference to 1815 is to the Bergen Census from that year for Andreas Duffra: Lenke

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Richard Hellesen

To Gunlief and Tor: thanks both for your info and close reading of the records. I had also noted the age difference, and jumped to the same conclusion that the original would have to be read--since, if you change "49" in 1801 to "39", the chronology fits. Doesn't quite solve the marriage question, but I have been given to understand from other sources (perhaps a rationalization, but still) that in times past what we would call "common-law" marriages were not unusual, and that they might be formalized when children were starting to arrive. (Sometimes even after that fact, or shortly before.) But that's a much larger subject....Also, thanks, Tor, for the explanation about Due/Duva/Duvwa--it makes much sense, and makes Kristian Hunskaar's suggestion about Halden seem even likelier. By the way, Trondheim was where my relatives departed from for America (to this day, it's still pronounced "Trondhjem" in our family)--lovely city! RH

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Kjell Hamberg

My "solution" to the marriage dilemma is that we are actually looking at two ceremonies taking place at each side of the 1801 census deadline, the first being "trolovelse" and the second "copulation". At the time "trolovelse" was a much more serious and legally binding act than the common-place "engagement" of today. Thus, they were seriously recorded in many parishes. I've seen churchbook records where "trolovelse" is the main record and the date of "copulation" (what WE would normally consider as the wedding, but which perhaps at the time was more of a blessing ceremony?) is a short note added to the "trolovelse" record.The time between "trolovelse" and "copulation" would vary, 1-2 months might have been the norm, but I've seen 5 and even more months. And since Andreas was a sailor, 8-9 months might be what was practically possible for them.Does that make sence?Kjell H

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Krsitian Fjeldsgård

I wouldn't leave the clue to Friedrichhaven, which later have been a major german naval port, I believe it's nearby Friedrichstad in Schleswig, though the map I have consulted didn't show the harbour. Schleswig/Holstein has been a conflicted area on the border of Germany and Denmark. I don't recall the situation in the 1770's but give it a call, it may have belonged to Denmark/Norway. A historical atlas for Europe may show you the situatioan the time beeing.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Kristian Fjeldsgård

Sometimes it can be nearer - Fredrikshavn in Denmark also is av possibility

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Yngve Nedrebø

Anders Dufra, born 1762, living in a house numbered 24-58 in Bergen, is registered in the Main roll of Bergen 1805-1808 as "HR24g", he was married, and had one child (in 1805), a girl. He was born in "Fridrichshalds Distr. Stromstad", later corrected to "Christiania Bye".June 21, 1805 he was made a mate, due to a letter from "AdmiralitetsCollegiet" of June 6, 1805. June 18, 1805 he left Bergen for a trip to "Middelhv." (listed as number 122), and he returned to Bergen Aug. 15, 1806. He made another trip to the Mediterranean Sept. 5, 1806 (listed as number 268), and returned to Bergen July 14, 1807.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Richard Hellesen

I'd say the last information clarifies things immensely--thank you. (Although the Christiania correction is another curiosity to pursue...) One question: by "Main roll", do you mean roll of seamen registered in Bergen? Clearly you have access to material not yet found on the digitalarkivet. No matter: the existing material on this site, the links and ease of use, are utterly superior...Oh yes, final point: stumbled through some Swedish databases, and found "Dufva" surnames abounding. So I do think ultimate answers may lie there--thanks for pointing me in the southeastern direction.... Best, RH

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Yngve Nedrebø

In the 1803/05 roll Anders Dufra first had been registered as being born in "Sverig", so I suppose he came from a Swedish family. The "Main Roll" (Norwegian: Hovedrulle) was kept by the enlistment offier, and included there one will find sailors and other men available for military duty, aged approx. 20-45. They would be transferred to the Extra Roll if no longer suitable for military duty.Anders Dufra (later written Duffra) appears in the Hovedrulle untill 1813. He had been captured Feb. 28, 1808, and most likely spent a few years in prison in England, but had returned to Bergen in 1812, and left for "Archangel" June 12, 1812. In 1813 he was transferred to the Bergen Extra roll (ER24y), and had moved to a house in 5-161, later to 2-2b.He remained a mate, and still sailing in 1822, when he left for Spain Jan. 4. However, this seems to have been his last trip, as the enlistment officer of Bergen in 1823 stated that Anders Duffra had perished as the ship had been lost.

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider
Gjest Richard Hellesen

Yngve: tried to send separate e-mail but it didn't go through. Ah well. Just wanted to say thanks for the incredibly detailed information--and thanks as well to all who tackled the original question. As a group you've managed in 3 days to answer a question which has baffled my family for about 70 years....I look forward to further adventures in what remains the best organized and most useful international database I've yet found... Best regards--RH hellesen@worldnet.att.net

Del dette innlegget


Lenke til innlegg
Del på andre sider

  • Hvem er aktive   0 medlemmer

    Ingen innloggede medlemmer aktive

×

Viktig Informasjon

Arkivverket bruker cookies (informasjonskapsler) på sine nettsider for å levere en bedre tjeneste. De brukes til bl.a. skjemaoppdateringer og innlogging. Bruk siden som normalt, eller lukk informasjonsboksen for å akseptere bruk av cookies.