[#9906] translation please, of 9786, about Chicago and Amalie Jensen

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I will look for Arthurs marriage and the birth record of the child and info about the wife/mother, more next week. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Without the 1875 census for Rogaland, i will not be able to support my 'new' theory about Gab, which is that he is the son of Ane Jacobsdatter,b1839, Hole; and living with Gab(1865 census) in Stavanger, Simon Torgersen/wife Lisebeth, who might then have a Lizzie, b ca1870; who then marries Gab in Chicago in 1891. Wild enough for you?!?! But Gab's father must have a Some/Somme farm connection--find his birth in Stavanger please. &Lizze's. Is Sta. 1875 census available offline? HELP! Roger.

[Gjest Marianne Innes Hansen]

Hi Roger. I can`find the censues 1875 for Rogaland, I will contact Stavanger libery monday. Here is wath i find in censues 1865 Stavanger.Ane Jacobsdatter b.1839, Høye prestegjeld married to Tollef Thorsen b. 1842 Stavanger. Son Gabriel Tollefsen b. 1864 Stavanger. I dont think this is 'my' Gabriel. about John and Gabriel don`t they have the same lastname?.

[Gjest Kathy Bergan Schmidt]

And is John Sommers the Johan Andres Sommervold in the 1875 Census for Trondheim here on the Digitalarkivet?

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

...Is it safe for me yet, i've been hiding at the FHC,...hmm no hostiles in sight...well i've found a John Olsen(Andres?) Sommervold, b july 4, 1861, d aug 16, 1918, a blacksmith; will request an obit to clear him. They might not be related, as Kathy noted earlier. 15 1864 Gab's in Rogaland; 3 with middle names that don't match J.; i should not limit to his father, one of these Gab's must have worked on a 'summer' farm Sola/Some or Hoyland/Somme farm. Could be Gab Jonasen of Hoilands--hence Gab J. Sommers! Roger.

[Gjest Geir Eide]

Roger and Marianne, I am sorry to say, I think Marianne is rigth. Parrishrecords, baptized in St. Petri parrish in Stavanger:Theodor Gabriel born 25.2.1864 baptized 13.3. same year. Parents : Tollef Thorson and wife Anne Jacobsdatter .And, 'Seamen`s rolls from Stavanger' are showing what I think is the same person, (although his birthdate differ some days ) as 'retired' seaman 01.03.1896 ! And I can`t find him among emigrants leaving Stavanger, although awared of these records are not complete. Digitalarkivet: Seamen's rolls 1860-1900.15620 Theodor Gabriel Tollefsen 5765 Stavanger Rode 36 Stavanger 1864.02.03 1885.01.03 1896.01.03I checked the parrishrecords for the two parrishes in Stavanger : 'Stavanger Domkirke' and 'St. Petri ' parrishes, where Gabriel according to the 1865 census could have been baptized. And I couldn`t come up with anyone else, but the above mentioned 'Gabriel'.I also did a look-up in the parrish-books (?) ('bygdebøker') where I found some similar farmnames to 'Some' and 'Somme' in the nearby region. That is 'Soma' in Høyland parrish and Sømme in Haaland parrish. No connection at those farms to the former mentioned -Gabriel Tollefson- nor his father -Tollef Thorson-. It would be rather unlikely that he (Gabriel) used his mothers farmname. Besides that, I couldn`t find any farmnames in Høle parrish similar to 'Some' nor Somme'. I would however, not use these 'bygdebøker' as a definit 'truth' in such researches.Of course, there could be some another -Gabriel- born 1864 +- in Rogaland, that is yours -Gabriel Sommer-Geir Eide

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Info about Arthur Hansen from 1920 census: 3840 West Division St, toolmaker; age 30, born IL to Norwegians; married to Lena,31,born Il to Germans; 3 dau's: Hazel, 11; Helen 6, Irene 2. Will try for birth records-must order film for first 2;(index ends 1916). Marr: #487649 on july 15, 1908, Lena Bohlman(Bohnmann, april 21, 1899-per birth record(#1113); to David, age 23 and Lina, age 24-nee Guderjahn). Maybe some living family? Perhaps. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Thank you Geir, i still wonder about Lizzie! and Gab of Sola, b Haalands is possible as is Gab Eilsen, b Hoyland, also. The US census entry says born Oct 1864, to us 1882. Is seems Sommers must be a farm name as no Gab Sommers indexed(unless omitted as noted). His brief working time on a farm might not be noted-unless you can find an owner/cotter on a 'summer' farm which matchs our, hopefully correct, data. ..i used NHDC logic to list the 15 Gab's, 1864, Rogaland. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

What was i thinking, they wonder. Hmm, after a long nap, i will withdraw Sommervold, and that Lena birth in 1899 is really bad math! Nevermind about that birth...next time i will look for 1889 like i know i should..uff daa.. Roger. (the marr was in a German Luth church which is now United Church of Christ(thank you, Joel)- i have asked their archives for help)

[Gjest Kathy Bergan Schmidt]

I have been trying to sort out the facts from the guesses and the wrong conclusions that we've made and have found something that may influence further investigations. I believe that we are wrong in thinking that the Arthur Hansen of the 1920 census is the same as the Arthur Sommers of the 1900 and 1910 census.If son Arthur Sommers, single, is living with John and Amalie Sommers at 529 Central Ave. in Chicago in 1910, he probably isn't the Arthur Hansen of the 1920 census who was married to Lena and had 3 daughters -- the oldest of whom was 11 years old and probably born in 1909.Marianne, if you send me your e-mail address, I'll send you a copy of my summary. It's getting to be quite long, so I probably shouldn't post it here. My e-mail is bergan.schmidt@tellenar.com.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

One 'little' detail seems to have gotten in the way of a good story--well, i'am looking into John's first marriage and it has a 'twist': John marries Sarah Hassel, age 20, 7 Feb 1888, Togersen's Bethania Church, same one as Gab in 1891, and John again in 1899. But this time John says he is from Stavanger, (Berg/Borg)? follows(any guesses?) and Sarah is from Thondhjem! So i found Sara Hassel(really i did!!-hehe) Trondheim-Kofodgjelene 9d, 1875 census as a stepdau to Johan/Anne Bakken, born 1867 in Throndhjem.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Also found Sara in the Trondheim, 1867-1930 list, person 42907 and 43018(missed the boat, i suspose), 1885. Perhaps she can be linked further, what do you think? So far, i have not found Arthurs bap, but will look at more film, if that was 4 children living in the census, then it seems likely that Art is a Sommer. He may have returned to Trondheim with Sara, who knows, but its his connection thru Sara that leads to the 1899 cert having Thondhjem as his home. So John(Johan?) and Gab are from Stavanger area. And looking at each 1864 Gab may find them, so i believe. (the 1875 census is really missed)

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I will continue looking at film for Johns death cert, little bt little, but it likely take the 1930 US Federal census all persons index to find them. I did not find a Sarah Sommers or Hassel in the ILL Death index, she may have remarried, or moved-i wonder if back to Trondheim. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Ancestry has begun to 'post' Il, 1930; i write 'begun' because my father and grandparents are not in the index as of this afternoon. Perhaps Kathy or someone can look for Arthur; i found John and Amalie as 'Summers' ..and the 's' can look very much like an 'o'...and the 'o' an 'u' and 'm' an 'n'. Still working my way through various spellings in the death index, a slow process at 1 or 2 films at a time. The census(April 7, 1930)(ed16-1113/p 11B) has them to America 1882, she 80, he 68, retired. Roger.

[Gjest Kathy Bergan Schmidt]

Roger is right about finding Amalie and John -- and it is definitely a mispelling because it is clearly written as 'Sumners.' They were renting at 615 Milwaukee Avenue. I wonder what happened to Gabriel and Arthur?

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Tonight we have to keep wondering about Gab and Art, i have 1 Gab film on order; if Arthur lived past 1950, but not long enough to be visible in the SSDI, he could be difficult, but perhaps i can find him at Mt. Olive. AMELIA found! (an indexer has her as Amilea) surname as Sunners. Most info from Cook county hosp records, so some dates/times inexact(ya...), 1311 W. Erie, married to John, about 85, in US about 40 yrs, housewife, born Larvik Norway, to Anton Larson, Wold & Wold, Nels B. Wold, at Mt. Olive. Hope to find John with her when i visit soon. Will req an obit. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Amalie and John(Summers) are together in Mt. Olive Cemetery in Chicago. She died 6-28-1933, he on 4-12-1937. Unmarked graves, section R, Lot 3A, near the Chapel. Film for John's cert will take several weeks, i asked for obits for both. Roger. (has it been 4 months already!)

[Gjest Marianne Hansen]

Hi Roger and Kathy.I have been looking for Berg/Borg in Stavanger and neighbourhood, but I can\t find it. I wonder is there is any possibillity that I can get you homeadress?. I want to send a christmaspresent to bout of you fore all the help. You two are marevellous. marhanse@c2i.net

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

This is Gabriel, but the proving...could be tough...on Chicago certificate and record of death, #20202, Gabriel Somers, single, from Norway, age 52, unknown date, died 13 july 1914, a laborer from 1900-1914; at Cook County hosp, buried Oak Forest july 22?(hard to read), of TB, in US 35 years,father ? Somers, of ? (hard to read), unk mother. On film 1287503. Lived at 1851 N. Fairfield Av(i think-hard to read) Still waiting on John's film. Roger.

[Gjest Marianne I. Hansen]

Hi RogerThanks fore the information. I call Stavanger library today. This is or havent been a Berg or Borg in Stavanger. I don`t now where to look fore John, Gabriel or Arthur. IT\s very difficult when we don`t now the last name.