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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

[#10081] Opplysninger om Rosalia Larson fra Kristiansund (?), død Chicago 1903.

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Guest Kathy Bergan Schmidt

Well, at least I found one new fact on the Cook County Death Index 1871-1916.. Rosalie Christiansen died on 12 September 1904 in Chicago. She was 38 years old. That, at least, agrees with her being 37 when your father was born in 1903. I ordered the microfilm of the death certificates and will look up her certificate number 2272 when the film comes in. That may be a week or two.Roger is right about the marriage records being available. And he will find the right film in the drawer (number 1030206) when he goes to the Wilmette Family History Center. I had looked for vital records for Chicago, Illinois, in the FHL catalog and that search only gives you birth and death records. But if you search under 'Cook, Illinois' you get birth, death, and marriage.I checked the Pedersen Funeral Home Records and Rosalie's funeral was not conducted by them. I called Mount Olive Cemetery, where many Norwegians are buried -- but not Rosalie. There are a few other cemeteries that got a lot of business from Norwegians where an inquiry could be made but the death certificate will probably give the same information. There was another funeral home, Wold & Wold, used by many Norwegians but they went out of business a few years ago and I don't know where those records might be or if they still exist. The funerals of some of my family were conducted by Wold & Wold so I'm going to try to see if I can find something out about those records.I hope this adds at least a little something to your knowledge about your grandmother.

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Guest Laila N. Christiansen

I found Rosalie on Familysearch: Waldine Rosalie HANSEN Sex: F Event(s): Christening: 28 Jan 1866 Bragernes Drammen, Buskerud, Norway Parents: Father: Hans LARSEN Mother: Anne Christine HANSDR Source Information: Batch number: Dates Source Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type K420486 1848-1868 0278178 FilmI am at least sure this is the same one I found in 1865-1875 censuses and also in the emigrant protocols. This is her brother: Frithjof Eugenius HANSEN sex: M Event(s): Christening: 24 Apr 1864 Bragernes Drammen, Buskerud, NorwayParents: Father: Hans LARSEN Mother: Anne Kristine HANSENSource Information: Batch number: Dates Source Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type J420486 1848-1868 0278178 Film

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Guest Laila N. Christiansen

When did your aunt Ione leave for USA? And, what surname did she use? Must use every little bit of information, esp. since you know she lived with relatives! Maybe some of the other siblings of Rosalie also emigrated? Laila

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Guest Laila N. Christiansen

I wonder where the parents got their ideas for the childrens names? Dorn Rufin Just HANSEN Sex: M Event(s): Christening: 1 Sep 1867 Bragernes Drammen, Buskerud, Norway Parents: Father: Hans LARSEN Mother: Anne Christine HANSDR

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

No I know when my grandparents were married and when Rosalie died.I am still a little uncertain about if we have the correct family Larsen. Would be nice to get this confirmed if some of the records from Chicago contain the name of the father (parents) of Rosalie. As I understand this is still a possibilty.Kathy says: 'But if you search under 'Cook, Illinois' you get birth, death, and marriage. Is this something I can do via internet or something I still need your help for.I think Adolf Syver, his new wife Serine, Ione and Ruben come to Norway about 1908. I also think Ione soon returned to USA, but I don't no exactly when. I think I have heard that Ione was only 15 when she returned. She is born 1894. In 1932 she lived in N. La Salle str. in Chicago. The last part of her life she lived in Los Angeles (where she probably also was born). I think I can be able to find an adress if necessary.I have a letter from her (and my fathers) cousine Ruth (Chicago 1949). This Ruth gives name on many persons I they are related to (I belive). I don't know their surnames and on which branch they are related. This persons are brothers and sisters of Ruth: Arthur, Valdine (Hazel Pettersen), and May. I also have name of some of these persons children and grandchildren and their familys surnames.Yes, there are some rather odd names on children in the Larsen family; Doren Rusfin?????

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

I forgot: The surname of Ione is Christiansen. She were never married.Arne-Sten

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

There was a name in the Larsen family which seemed to be familiar to me, but I couldn't remember from where. But suddenly I found out and this makes it much more certain that Laila has got the correct family:In a letter there is referred to the brother-in-law of Adolf Syver Jacob Brown (Hulda's husband). (He had at that time a second wife (1949).Hulda is one of Rosalie's sisters!!!!!!!!

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Guest Laila N. Christiansen

Well, after all, I am sure I am right, we just have to find the proof!! I should have been a detective! i THINK!Ok. Do you have a year for your letter? Jacob Brown...I have a problem findin' any of the siblings of Rosalia in 1900, I wonder if they emigrated 1ce more. Esp. the son Dor'n, or the son Just, also Fritjof (spellings???) I dont think all the children died or emigrated, so we should be able to find them!!!Also, I am sure Rosalie left to visit a family member!You should start going through all the Larsen/Hansen emigrants to find out!!! Laila

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Guest Laila N. Christiansen

and, another thing, I don't find mr. Adol* Chris* at all in 1900census (US) must be mis-spelled somehow.You need to find out, where did they live, Adolf and Rosalie in 1900?? I might be able to find them in the census, but, then, as we now know, people from India, CHina, where ever, are transcribing the census records, so, who knows!!!

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Guest Kathy Bergan Schmidt

Hello, Arne-Sten and Laila. Looks like there are some valid conclusions being made-- so nice to see some success. And if you keep finding names of relatives in Chicago, who knows, maybe we'll end up being cousins ourselves. . .The 'Cook, Illinois' search I talked about before was a search of the Family History Catalog on the FamilySearch.org site. That was a 'place name' search. You can do that from home but you don't get any facts. What you get is the numbers of the microfilm you can rent and use at a Family History Center. And there are 709 rolls of microfilm for those Cook County marriage records. (So I think it is rather amazing that the one that may have the information for your grandparents is already at Roger's FHC in Wilmette!!) Somebody has to find the right document on the right microfilm (sometimes they really aren't in perfect numerical order) and then you have access to the data.Is 17 September 1891 the right marriage date? If so, the minister and/or church will be listed, and if it's NOT St. Paul's, there's still the chance of getting the church record.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

We know that at least one of Rosalie's sieblings emigrated to the US:Hulda. I have checked the family of Adolf Syver's second wife. She didn't have any sister with that name.The letter that gave the information about Hulda and Jacob Brown was written in 1949. It was written by Ruth ? (my fathers cousine).Where did Adolf and Rosalie live in 1900? I know Adolf lived in Los Angeles in 1893, 1894 and 1895. He was also in San Diego, but I don't think he lived there. 1. of july 1901 he lived in 994 E. 47 st. in Los Angeles. So in 1900 he must have been in L.A.I can not make a conclusion if the date of marriage is correct, but with the combination of names we must think it is???*We know that the family Larsen according to emigrant documents were heading for Chicago in 1872. We know for sure that my father was born in Chicago in oct. 1903. We have found that Adolf Christiansenm and Rosalie Larson was married in Chicagi in sep. 1891*. I have reasons to belive that Adolf had the L.A. adress also in 1902 (??).I will also mention that Adolf worked as a practical painter in a Chicago company: Office of J.G. Mac Carthy Wall Paper and Linerusta-Walton. I have a statement from his employer, but it's very difficult to read the year. Nov. 29 -92/-02?I will try to look throug Larsen and Hansen emigrants to see if I could bump into some of the sieblings of Rosalie.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

Found one Dorn Larsen from Kristiania 16 year old leaving Oslo April 3. 1884 heading for Chicago. Source: Digitalarkivet: Emigranter fra Oslo 1867-1930. On the same ship one Anette Larsen from Drammen 46 year. Could it be his aunt?Larsen and Hansen is so commen names that it is a big job to look up those I need to find. Not finished with the job.Arne-Sten

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Guest Roger Thauland

Kathy- i could use access to the Wold records too; we need your help with the pastor/church--hard to read... looks something like O. Junl or Jensl, Lutheran pastor of Our Saviours ?????? (might be Church). Adolph was 34 and Rosalie was 26.

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Guest Kathy Bergan Schmidt

The pastor's name was Ole Juul. You can thank Joel Thoreson, the Research Archivist at the ELCA Archives in Elk Grove Village, for that information. He has done great things on the ELCA web site. The section on Lutheran Churches in Chicago gives brief descriptions of the historic churches, pictures if available, a list of pastors. And best of all, it states what microfilm, if any, they have of the church records and even gives the identification numbers. And there's records for Our Saviour's.The site is here LenkeThe Wold & Wold records aren't so easily found. The two funeral director's associations told me to check with the Newberry Library or Chicago Historical Society to see when they went out of business and if they sold out to another funeral home that may -- or may not -- have the old records. Going to need lots of help on that quest, I think. . .

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Guest Roger Thauland

The news from Joel was very limited--the only additional info was the names of witnesses: Dani Jonson? , and Jimmie Johnson. (so far no responses about the Wold records from my several emails)

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

Names of the witness is unknown to me.Arne-Sten

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Guest Roger Thauland

Hi Arne-Sten, About Ione, i have her exact dates and could try for an obit if you do not already have that? About Hulda, there is only one possible in the index, Hulda Larson married Jacob E Brown, May 5, 1884, Cook lic 81555, i will look for the film next week; each church seems to choose what info to record! I have some possible persons in the death indexes to look up, was Jacob living in 1949, then? About Rosalia, i expect to have her obit in about a week...it's being mailed to me. And about the 1949 letter, are any of the 'full' names somewhat uncommon?...perhaps we could look around the Chicago area.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

Yes, Jacob Brown was alive in 1949.Arne-Sten

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Guest Roger Thauland

I've found the marriage license of Jacob and Hulda. Both were 22. They were married by Pastor Abbot E. Kittredge, Third Presbyterian Church on South Ashland Ave near West Madison. This is likely a closed church, so contact their archives at refdesk@history.pcusa.org. Visit website at history.pcusa.org. (thanks to Joel Thoreson at ELCA for this info). I am waiting for some film for the death cert of Hulda(hilda here). You can ask the state of Illinois to search for Jacob's for about $10 for 10 years-a search engine can be used to find the site-or from rootsweb go to us genweb and work through the panels. To Kathy (and whoever): the Wold records are with retired Nelson(Bud) Wold (lives by Woodfield mall); phone is 847-310-9142. Roger.

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Guest Kathy Bergan Schmidt

Good work, Roger!! Nice to know we can actually locate some of the Chicago Norwegian-Amercian records that seem to be hiding out there in plain sight.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

Thank you, Roger!In august 26. you wrote that you probably would have Rosalias obit in about one week. Is there any news about this?About names from the 1949 letter it's not easy for me to say what is common names or not. It's mostly christian names without surnames. I have one May whose son seemes to be Paul Kimball father to Susan May and Sally. Pauls sister Alice Josephine married to Mark Spooner. It's not clear who this May is. But I think that she may be about the generation of my father, may be his cousin. May was probably the sister og Ruth (married and divorsed, no children?) who was my fathers cousin. They seem to have a brother Arthur (children: June, Beatrice, Mabel, Howard and Ruth(?)and a sister Valdine Hazel Pettersen (Children: Raymon and a girl (?)maried to Vaughn Mason.)In FamilySearch I found one Valdine Peterson (birth 27 sep. 1881 - dead 15 nov. 1966, Chicago (zip code 60639).Arne-Sten

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Guest Roger Thauland

Well the researcher took longer than expected...i have it now and its merely a 'notice' and not a proper obit. It gives her name, age 38, of 811 N. Campbell Ave. died Sept 12 1904. So we must wait for Kathy's film research for more complete info. I will order the obit of Valdine as that might help and consult area resources about the others. Are you ok about ordering the cert of Jacob? Please try to contact the church about the Brown's--if they have good records and the Brown's did not move, they may have info about their children. bit by bit we may find some 'live' ones! Roger.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

Roger, I have just mailed to get information on Jacob Brown as you suggested. Hope they will give an answer.Arne-Sten

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Guest Roger Thauland

Well Arne, i've just found your Spooners and Kimballs, your extra detail was vital for that! See www.aritek.com/hartgen/htm/kimball.htm I hope they know of Ruth and others, i have ordered Valdine's obit. Roger.

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Guest Arne-Sten Christiansen

I mailed refdesk@history.pcusa.org. This is the mail I sent:'In order to find out about my family, I have got help trough Internet. I have been advised to contact this adress to find out about the family of my fathers aunt, Hulda (Hilda) Larsen. She was married to Jacob Brown by pastor Abbot E. Kittredge in Third Presbyterian Church on South Ashland Ave near West Madison. As i have understood, this is a closed church, but that archives may be available at this adress. If the family stayed in the area of this church for longer time, there is probably some information to get. Is it possible to get information about the death cert of Jacob? Could there be any information about children?'And this is the answer:'Your request did not provide enough information for a search of our catalogues. If you can provide us with the city and state in which your ancestor's congregation was located, we will be happy to attempt a search.'Do you know if it was Chicago?The web-page about Kimball and Spooner was great. I have found almost all the names from my letter. Among them both Ruth and Valdine. Their mothers name was Josephine Valborg (both Christian names). Rosalie had a sister Josefine Helene Marie (all christian names). I will contact those who deal with this web-page to find out about this.Arne-Sten

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