Mons Jensson Heltne - fødd i Luster 1756 - sjømann og første emigrant til Amerika herifrå på 1790-talet - skal ha sete i engelsk fangenskap i British Guyana i 1796 - kvar vart han av? - ei kjempeutfordring!

[Lars E. Øyane]

Dette er eit tema som første gongen vart presentert i Brukarforum i 2003, men som den gongen ikkje fekk noki løysing:

 

https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/103475-17725-mons-jensson-heltne-f-luster-1756-til-guyana-i-sør-amerika-lagnaden-hans/?tab=comments#comment-851582

 

Mons Jensson Heltne, døypt i Luster 15.8.1756, son av gardbrukar Jens Monsson på Heltne (1726-1796) og kona Gjertrud Pedersdotter frå Bjørkum i Lærdal (1728-1803), reiste i ung alder ut som sjømann og budde ei tid i København, men då faren døydde i 1796, vert det fortalt at Mons hadde butt både i London og i Amsterdam, men at han som mannskap på ei hollandsk skute til Karibien hadde vorte teken til fange av engelskmenn og sett i fengsel i Demerara, British Guyana. Han kom aldri heim att til Luster!

 

Her er ei referanse til skiftet etter Jens Monsson Heltne frå 1796: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/24144/131?indexing=

 

Eg har i mange år spekulert på lagnaden til denne første kjende «emigranten» frå Luster og vonar at kanskje ein eller annan av Brukarforumet sine lesarar kan bidra med gode tips?

 

Eg takkar so mykje på førehand og ville verta ein svært lykkeleg person om Mons kan attfinnast!

[Gunnar Sigdestad]

Kan det dokumenterast at han budde i London og Amsterdam og at han var fange i Guyana?

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Hei Lars:

 

There is a record at the British National Archives concerning a Dutch ship Minerva, captain Swart, sailing from Middelburg (Netherlands) to Demerara, that was captured in 1795. The record has not been digitised, but you can obtain a copy (for a fee, presumably): http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13500730. I do not know whether the record would contain a crew list.

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Some historical background:

 

Demerara and Essequibo (two Dutch colonies containing what is essentially now Guyana) were under the control of the Dutch until 1796 (the Dutch West Indies Company until 1792, direct rule by the Dutch government 1792-96), although British planters in the colonies were influential. Until 1795 the Dutch fought on the side of the British against revolutionary France. But in 1795 France conquered the Netherlands and established the Batavian Republic. In response, the British launched an expedition from Barbados in 1796 that took over Demerara and Essequibo, so as to prevent these colonies from being taken over by the French. This was essentially bloodless, both because of the large number of British in the colony and because the Dutch there probably favored the British side. The local Dutch administration was generally left in place. The question here is whether Mons Jensen was a sailor on a Dutch ship after the Netherlands had become a French ally/vassal (and thus an enemy to the British).

 

There are three records at the British National Archives that list British and neutral ships that were allowed to leave Demerara in 1796: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9213110; http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9213114; and http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9213115. However, these probably do not contain crew lists. I have not found anything in the description at the National Archives of the Colonial Office correspondence concerning Demerara and Essequibo (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C9213054/first/C9213054) that looks like it might contain a list of prisoners.

 

Edited to add: for historical background, see James Rodway, History of British Guiana, vol. II (Georgetown, Demerara: 1893), pp. 70-76, 116-120. I have been able to read this at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044010168359;view=1up;seq=80, but I don't know whether this is accessible to someone outside the U.S.

Endret Mai 29, 2018 av Carl-Henry Geschwind

[Lars E. Øyane]

Hjarteleg takk til Gunnar og Carl-Henry for nye innlegg!

 

Opplysningane om lagnaden til Mons om bustadar etc., kjem fram av fleire brev som er attgjevne i skiftet etter faren (sjå link i innlegg #1).

 

The information that you, Carl-Henry, give us about the historical background sounds worthwhile to follow up on.  I shall have to study the details, but it won't be tonite.  Bed is waiting for me...

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand til løysing av denne «sjømannsgåta»!

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Hei Lars:

 

The mention of Mons Jensen in Demerara appears to be in a letter dated 10 December 1796 on p. 256 of the probate (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/24144/134), bottom of the left column and top of the middle column. The quality of the reproduction is somewhat poor, and my knowledge of Norwegian is insufficient for me to decipher it. Would it be possible to get a transcription of this letter, so we can consider exactly how Mons's situation is described?

 

[Lars E. Øyane]

Thank you very much, Carl-Henry, for your latest message!

 

When I first studied this problem, back in the early 1980's, I had the orignal book in front of me, and although the handwriting is extremely tiny and tight, it was better than the scanned microfilm!  In order to make sure we get it right, I have introduced the interpretation question into the «interpretation section» of the Digital Archives, and hopefully we'll get it all right.

 

What I do notice from this probate record, is the fact that Mons does get his share of the estate, so I guess they counted on him to return...

 

I still don't know how I should proceed with the sources you mentioned yesterday.  I fear that a thorough search of the records at the British Museum may turn out to be quite costly, when we cannot go there by ourselves...

 

Thanks again, Carl-Henry, for your interest and great assistance!

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Thank you, Lars. The partial transcription you offered already helps a lot - although there are some crucial gaps that will be of great interest when they are filled.

 

My suspicion is that Mons intended to go ("skulde gaae") to Demerara with his Dutch ship, but never made it - that the English intercepted him at sea, and possibly imprisoned him either in England or somewhere in the Caribbean (say, Barbados). From my reading of the history of British Guiana, it appears that no enemy traders made it all the way to Guiana in 1795/96. This means that the Colonial Office correspondence I mentioned in #4 is irrelevant.

 

The document I mentioned in #3 is the only document I could find relating to a ship from Holland to Demerara that was seized by the English in 1795/96. This might not be the ship that Mons was one, but it might be worth checking out just to see what happened to such a ship.

 

I guess the next step would be to see whether anybody within the British bureaucracy in London kept track of what happened to prisoners of war taken at sea in this time period. It is also possible that there might have been official inquiries from the Dutch (in addition to our guy from Bergen) as to what happened to the men on this ship, which might also give a clue. I am off for the remainder of the day, but hope to take another look tomorrow at what records might be available in London (I've worked in the British National Archives before and have found them to be comprehensive and well-catalogued, even if the actual retrieval of records can be costly without a visit).

 

 

 

 

[Lars E. Øyane]

Thanks again, Carl-Henry,. for new thoughts on this topic.

 

I have also looked at the Bergen records of seamen, and I do find one person who caught my interest, the only Mons Jenson:

 

http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=matr1754&gardpostnr=268&merk=268#ovre

 

This Mons Jensson is said to be born in Fana about 1757, so he would be somewhat off in age (but not much!), and he was married, BUT it does say he sailed on the West Indies!!  Maybe «our» Mons was married in Fana before he went to Sea?

 

Unless this be this guy (?): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000649359

 

Thanks again for great assistance in this matter!

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Hei Lars:

 

1) The Mons Jensen who sailed to the West Indies in 1782 and 1783 is, I believe, not the same as the Mons Jensen who married Agotha Tollevsdatter in 1785 (and was still living with her in Fana in the 1801 census). Instead (given that the list of "Matroser i Bergen" said he lived in Korskirken Sogn), I believe it is this guy, a "matros" who was a father in Korskirken Sogn in 1791 (with child's mother being Marthe Malene Gunnersdtr): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000009201067. This Mons and Marthe Malene got married in 1784 (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000431315), and they had further children in 1797 and 1799 (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000009203639 and https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000009205067). So unfortunately not "our" Mons Jensen, who certainly was not having children in Bergen in 1797.

 

Which of course means that "our" Mons Jensen is not the only Mons Jensen from Norway who went to the West Indies in the late 1700s.

 

2) If "our" Mons Jensen was still alive in December 1796 and in English captivity, it is very likely that he was transferred to the Norman Cross prisoner-of-war camp, which was built in early 1797 in England to house 4,000+ Dutch and French sailors and soldiers, many of them captured in the West Indies. On the Norman Cross camp, see the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cross and an extensive history from 1913: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/43487/43487-h/43487-h.htm. The 1913 history on p. 50 mentions that registers were kept of all French and Dutch prisoners (presumably including Norwegians who served in Dutch crews). The register of Dutch prisoners from 1797 to 1801 is now located at the British National Archives (formerly Public Records Office) in file ADM 103/250 (see http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2688918). This register (as well as all other registers for British prisoners of war during the Napoleonic Wars) has apparently been transcribed by findmypast.co.uk. But when I do a search in their database, I do not come up with a Mons Jensen: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=mons&firstname_variants=true&lastname=jensen&lastname_variants=true&eventyear=1797&eventyear_offset=10&datasetname=prisoners of war 1715-1945. I am not sure how thorough their transcription was; if you are really curious and ever find yourself in London for a couple of days, you might want to leaf through the register at the British National Archives.

 

--Carl-Henry

 

[Lars E. Øyane]

Etter at Ivar Moe i eit anna emne i dag hentar fram denne Mons Jensson frå gamle prenta kjelder,

 

 

vil eg i dag gjerne få henta fram att dette utfordrande emnet samstundes som eg takkar Carl-Henry for det siste innlegget frå mai i år.  Eg står rett og slett «bom fast» og veit ikkje mi arme råd kva me skal gjera med denne saki!

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand i freistnadane på å kartleggja lagnaden til denne sjømannen frå Luster!

[Lars E. Øyane]

Eg har i kveld studert denne saki litt nærare og mellom anna lagt inn nye kopiar frå skifteprokollen i tolkingsemnet der Mons Jensson vart omtalt i 1796.

sjå:

https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/222688-hjelp-til-tyding-av-brev-om-sakna-erving-i-vestindien-1796/

https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/227306-hjelp-til-tyding-av-brev-om-sakna-erving-i-vestindien-1796-del-ii/

https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/227308-hjelp-til-tyding-av-brev-om-sakna-erving-i-vestindien-1796-del-iii/

https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/227310-hjelp-til-tyding-av-brev-om-sakna-erving-i-vestindien-1796-del-iv/

 

Det som eg no les ut av dette skrivet, er at siste gongen tollaren Hans Dahle i Bergen, nabogut og ven av Mons Jensson frå Luster hadde høyrt gjete han for 8 à 9 år sidan, var han i Amsterdam, men han hadde PLANAR om å mønstra på for å sigla til Demerara i Guyana, men det står vel strengt teke IKKJE at han var der so seint som i 1795/1796 då krigen raste mellom England og Holland i Vestindien, og sjøfolki på hollandske skip vart  sette i fengsel av engelskmenna.

 

Om han verkeleg vart fengsla av engelskmenna på den tidi, so BURDE jo namnet hans finnast i engelske fangelister, som eg har forstått skal liggja føre i ganske so komplett stand(?).

 

På den andre sida, anten han vart teken til fange av engelskmenna eller ikkje, so burde namnet hans finnast i hollandske mannskapslister, og dei forstår eg at Ivar Moe har godt oversyn over?  Eg vonar at du Ivar kan sjå litt på dette og seia kva du trur?  Me veit jo til dømes at han midt på 1780-talet ein gong følgde eit hollandsk skip til Arkangelsk!  Då var han jo innom i Bergen, medan han var undervegs!

 

Det hadde vore ei svært omtykt julegåve om me endeleg kunne finna ut av lagnaden til Mons Jensson og eg takkar på ny for alle gode tips!

Endret November 6, 2018 av Lars E. Øyane

[Lars E. Øyane]

So har Else endeleg «forbarma» seg over dette brevet frå 1796 som var so vanskeleg å tyda, og her følgjer ei transkribering:

 

I hvor gierne ieg end ville give Deres Velbaarenhed den under 3de d. M. og med Posten den 9de ditto indløbt forlangte Specielle Kundskab og addresse til og om Mons Jensen, saa kan ieg dog ikke for nærværende Tiid.  Men ieg vil giøre mit beste for Deres Velbaarenhed, saavel ved indenlandske som udenlandske Skippere, at see, at opspørge ham.  For længe siden var han baade i Kiøbenhavn, Holland og Engeland, og han var for omtrendt 10 Aar i Bergen, men ieg var ude paa Een Krys Tour, og derfor gremmede han sig for min Kone at ieg nu var hiemmefra han ville seet at komme fra Skibet som var Een Kiøbenhavner og fra Contra Vind inddreven paa Bergens Rehd og skulle gaae til Archangel fra Holland, Engeland, haver ieg haft brever fra hannem tænker er omtrendt 8 a 9 Aar siden og har ikke agtet paa disse Brever, altsaa forkommer men ieg kan erindre fra Holland stoed, at Han fra Amsterdam til Demerary skulde gaae nemlig i den Sydlige Deel af Westindien, den haver tilhørt Holland men nu indtaget af Engelsmanden og formedelst Krigen der indspærrer og opbringer Skibene vil det vist af den vidtløftigt at faae nogen Kundskab om ham i nogen Hast, uden at han Skulle opdage sig selv om Han er i Live. Bergen d. 10de December 1796.

 

Det er ikkje godt å få noki meining ut av dette.  MEN, eg trur me kan seia sikkert at Mons Jensson ikkje hadde meldt seg hjå Hans Dahle på 8 à 9 år, og at siste brevet inneheldt opplysningi om at Mons då ville mønstra på for å sigla til Demerara i Sør-Amerika.  So har dei «kobla» det faktum at dei ikkje hadde høyrt noko sidan den tid, med krigen i Vestindia!?

 

Då låg ikkje eg so svært langt unna i min tolking i føregåande innlegg, og staden å leita er nok i første rekke i hollandske mannskapslister...?

 

Ein ny kjempetakk for framifrå bistand i freistnadane på å kartleggja lagnaden til denne unge sjømannen frå Luster i Sogn!