Translation assistance

[Mark Goddard]

I found the following information that seems to match to the information you found at https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052093000449 (though the marriage date appears incorrect):

Why does Simen's name include "Ringsaker Ensbybrenden"?  I know Ringsaker is a place, but.... ??  What are the other names in parenthesis?

 

Sidsel Olsdtr Ensbybrænden (Rugløkken)

BIRTH25 Oct 1847DIFFERENT Oyer, NorwayNEW

DEATH6 Jan 1923  NorwayNEW

sources (6) records (5)

Family Info

Father	Ole Samuelsen Holmen (Klevemoen) (1813-1900)NEW
Mother	Sophie Torgersdatter Rugløkken (Nestingen) (1815-1900)NEW
Spouse	Simen Olsen Ringsaker Ensbybrenden (1837-1929) Married 1869
Children	Dina (1871-1912)New Sophia Simensdtr (1872-1948)New Oline "Lena" (1875-1925)New Thea Clara (1880-1968)New Sina (1883-1965)New Olena (1887-1941)New

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

I think Simen was called Simen Olsen Ringsaker, (to separate him from the other Simen Olsen with the same age) and so it became a part of his name. Ensbybrenden is his address, not a surname.

 

Ringsaker is a municipality in Hedmark and Simen was born here.

Endret Mars 10, 2020 av Anne-Lise Hansen

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

Simen’s baptism in Ringsaker in 1837:

 

Hedmark fylke, Ringsaker, Brøttum, Veldre i Ringsaker, Ministerialbok nr. 7A (1826-1837), Fødte og døpte 1837, Side 88
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20070110640586
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070110640586

(No. 87)

 

He was born out of wedlock on June 16 and baptized July 16. His mother was Dorthe Larsdtr Hougsveen under Bakkerudfladen and his father was Ole Olsen Moe from Öyer.

 

 

Endret Mars 10, 2020 av Anne-Lise Hansen

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

Someone has put pictures of Simen and Sissel in this three at FamilySearch:

 

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LZ2L-B33

 

Dorthe and Ole’s marriage date is written here -  1838 January 18.

 

Hedmark fylke, Ringsaker, Brøttum, Veldre i Ringsaker, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1837-1850), Viede 1837-1838, Side 335
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20070110650455
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070110650455

(No. 7 )
 

Endret Mars 10, 2020 av Anne-Lise Hansen

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

 

Name: Sidsil Olsen
Event Type: Christening
Event Date: 7 Nov 1847
Event Place: Øyer, Oppland, Norway
Event Place (Original): Oyer, Opland, Norway
Gender: Female
Father's Name: Ole Samuelsen
Mother's Name: Sofie Torgersdr

GS Film Number: 307278
 

Citing this Record
"Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927", database, FamilySearch ( https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NCBW-WH1 : 21 February 2020), Sofie Torgersdr in entry for Sidsil Olsen, 1847. 

 

Sidsel (Sissel) was born 1847 November 25.

 

Oppland fylke, Tretten, Øyer i Øyer, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1842-1857), Fødte og døpte 1847, Side 34
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20070131630546
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070131630546

(No. 103)

 

The farm name at the time of her baptism is Jevne, 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Goddard]

what does "under Bakkerudfladen"  mean?

[Jon Erik Berg-Hansen]

Hougsveen was probably a (small) piece of land (tenant farmer's place) situated on the property of the main farm Bakkerudflaten.

Endret Mars 11, 2020 av Jon Erik Berg-Hansen

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

3 timer siden, Jon Erik Berg-Hansen skrev:

Hougsveen was probably a (small) piece of land (tenant farmer's place) situated on the property of the main farm Bakkerudflaten.

 

Yes, I searched for farms in Ringsaker, and found farm no. 272 Bokkerustad:

https://www.genealogi.no/wiki/index.php/Gårder_i_Ringsaker_sogn

 

Like Jon Erik sais, either a cotter’s croft or a smaller farm divided from the main farm.

 

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

Your question in entry #26 about the farm names in parenthesis, I’m not sure what is the answer.  Sissels parents may have come from the farm first written, and been in service on the farms in parenthesis at either the time of their wedding or confirmation.

 

A list of farms in Öyer: 

 

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_over_gårder_i_Øyer

 

A list of farms in Oppland:

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Lister_over_gårder_i_Oppland

Endret Mars 11, 2020 av Anne-Lise Hansen

[Mark Goddard]

Anne-Lise

In reference to your posts #26-29

 

In one you provide a this Family Search site for Simen: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LZ2P-78G

 

Also on Family Search is this one: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/KGSR-1RW

 

They both show Simen's lineage the same, but in one he is married to Sidsel (Sissel) and they had a bunch of kids, and in the other it shows him married to Karn (Karen) with their only son Johannes Simonson (my great grandfather)

 

So putting all this together with all the information you have given me is the storyline this:  Simen and Karn, as servants, had a child (Johannes) out of wedlock, and then a few years later Simen married Sidsel and they went on to have many children and live their life together.

 

And I still cannot find Simen's place of death and date of death

 

With Regards,

Mark

[Anton Hagelee]

2 hours ago, Mark Goddard said:

And I still cannot find Simen's place of death and date of death

 

Well you know he is still alive for the 1875 Census. Sometimes you just have to find him using brut force and look through all the pages for deceased individuals. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052093000450

 

And still alive in 1891

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052760000063

 

And still alvie in 1900

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01037085000034

 

And in 1910

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01036434000065

 

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Anton Hagelee

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

He is also alive in 1891:

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052760000063

[Anne-Lise Hansen]

What about this piece of information...?

 

Name: Simen Olsen
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 5 Jan 1894
Event Place: Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway
Event Place (Original): Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 1827
Death Date: 31 Dec 1893
Death Place: Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway

Reference ID: b2 p288e1
GS Film Number: 1283330
 

Citing this Record
"Norway Burials, 1666-1927", database, FamilySearch ( https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWXZ-26K : 20 February 2020), Simen Olsen, 1894. 

 

If only we could find the entry in the church books...! I have looked at Øyer/Øyer, Øyer/Tretten, Lillehammer/Faaberg...

 

[Anton Hagelee]

12 hours ago, Anne-Lise Hansen said:

What about this piece of information...?

 

Name: Simen Olsen
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 5 Jan 1894
Event Place: Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway
Event Place (Original): Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 1827
Death Date: 31 Dec 1893
Death Place: Lillehammer, Oppland, Norway

Reference ID: b2 p288e1
GS Film Number: 1283330
 

Citing this Record
"Norway Burials, 1666-1927", database, FamilySearch ( https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWXZ-26K : 20 February 2020), Simen Olsen, 1894. 

 

If only we could find the entry in the church books...! I have looked at Øyer/Øyer, Øyer/Tretten, Lillehammer/Faaberg...

 

 

 

The problem with the fellow from Lillehammer is that the connection between the Simen Olsen and family in the 1891 Census and the Simen Olsen and family in the 1900 Census is quite strong. Same names, same birth years same daughter with same birth year. 

[Mark Goddard]

Your burial record shows his birth date as 1827 whereas the 1910 census seems pretty clear it is our Simen of 1937 (and for the first time shows mth/day of birth) along with Sidsel being there in 1910 (and I suppose the kids moved on).  So in your opinion, would it be safe to disregard this burial notice as the wrong Simen?

 

How did the name Ensbybraed get attached to his name between the 1891 and 1900 census?  A farm name again?

 

And Anton, thank you for digging up that info... my handicap is that I can't read Norwegian and if I don't get the spelling right I'm further limited, so I appreciate you!

Mark

[Mark Goddard]

Their daughters Thea and Sina immigrated.  Think I found records of them, including Thea's death record in Montana.  Still some work to do in order to be accurate.  It's interesting because Simen and Karn's illegitimate child Johannes (my grandfather) has his family lineage living still in Montana.

[Mark Goddard]

Can you send me the link to Simen's 1885 Census?  I found the 1875 census and there are a bunch of children listed, but by the 1891 Census only three girls remain...

 

Sorry, that was wrong.  Just the three girls and one other person that may have been a grandmother?  Plus the FamilySearch records I found are wrong too because they listed the same daughters twice with different spelling of the names

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Mark Goddard

[Anton Hagelee]

33 minutes ago, Mark Goddard said:

Can you send me the link to Simen's 1885 Census?  I found the 1875 census and there are a bunch of children listed, but by the 1891 Census only three girls remain...

 

Sorry, that was wrong.  Just the three girls and one other person that may have been a grandmother?  Plus the FamilySearch records I found are wrong too because they listed the same daughters twice with different spelling of the names

 

Interesting from My Heritage. I do not have a subscription to My Heritage so I can not look and see if the site might mention a death for Simen. 

 

Sidsel Olsdatter Ensbybrænden (born Holmen)

Birth:	Day Month 1847 - Place
Death:	Day Month 1923 - Place
Parents:	Names of both parents
Siblings:	Goro Olsen and names of 4 more siblings
Husband:	Name of husband
Children:	Dina Bjorge (født Simensdatter Ensbybrænden) and names of 5 more children

 

 

Here is the death record for Sidsel. Number 1. She died Jan 1, 1923. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060420010280

 

It does not list her as a enke ie widow so it may mean that Simen is still alive. Also it lists his name as Simen Ensby

 

 

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Anton Hagelee

[Anton Hagelee]

Jackpot! Just did not think he would still be alive  all the way into 1929. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10040809034126

 

Died Jan 8, 1929. 

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Anton Hagelee

[Mark Goddard]

Found it in other Ancestry records:

Simon 8 Jan 1920 Oyer, Ensbybrenna

Sidsel 6 Jan 1923 Oyer, Ensbybrenna

 

With that, can you find death records since the source I found did not have a citation?

 

Just saw your 1929 source but of course, I cant read the Norwegian in the book...

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Mark Goddard

[Mark Goddard]

Anton

I think your are right... a 1929 death

Can you translate all the headings for me on that death notice?  when I tried translating begravet and jordfestet I get something like "buried and soil"  Does that mean no coffin???   was is the 16/1 under those headings?

[Anton Hagelee]

6 minutes ago, Mark Goddard said:

Anton

I think your are right... a 1929 death

Can you translate all the headings for me on that death notice?  when I tried translating begravet and jordfestet I get something like "buried and soil"  Does that mean no coffin???   was is the 16/1 under those headings?

 

The three dates are dates in January ie 16/1 is January 16. 

 

Date of death 8/1 

Date of funeral 16/1

Date of Internment ie burial 16/1 

 

Here is a link to the headings used "Column Headings for Parish records, 1877 - "

 

http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/na23.html

 

Here is a link to the main site http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/na20.html

 

And here is headings of interest to you.

 

Døde	Deaths
No.	Entry Number
Dødsdatum	Date of Death
Når Begravet  Jordfestet	Date of Funeral  Internment
Den dødes fulle navn og borgerlige stilling (næringsvei) med tilføyelse for voksnes vedkommende av opplysning om hvorvidt han (hun) var ugift, gift, enkemann (enke) eller fraskilt	The deceased person's full name, status, occupation and if adult, information as to whether he (she) was single, married, widower (widow) or divorced.
Ved gifte koner; mannens ved barn; farens navn og stilling	If deceased was a married woman; give husbands name; if deceased was a child; give father's name and status.
Fødsels År mnd dag	Year, month, and day of Birth
Fødested	Place of Birth
Bopel	Residence
Oppgitt dødsårsak	Stated cause of death
Har lege vært tilkalt under avdødes siste skydom?	Was a doctor called during the deceased's final illness?
Er dødsfallet anmeldt av vedkommende for skifteretten (lensmannen)?	Has the probate court (Sheriff) been notified of the death?
Anmerkninger	Remarks

 

[Mark Goddard]

Sending you many many thanks!!!!!!!

[Anton Hagelee]

4 hours ago, Mark Goddard said:

How did the name Ensbybraed get attached to his name between the 1891 and 1900 census?  A farm name again?

 

 

Farm names can be a bit confusing at times. 

In 1891 family is living at Brænden, a farm name. 

In 1900 living at Ensbybrænd  Likely a small farm under ie attached to the larger farm Brænden

In 1901 living at Ensbybrænd (plads)  Again a small farm Ensby. The word plad tells a lot. Here are some definitions of plads.  

 

plads                   (see "husmannsplass") (archaic)

 

husmannsplass           cotter's farm

 

husmand                 (see "husmann")
husmann                 cottager, tenant farmer, crofter, smallholder, 
                        person who rented a house
                        with or without a small plot of land on larger farm.
                        Rent was paid by doing part time work for the farmer.
                        see also Norwegian farms - some background informationHusmann
                        "I don't think there is a good English word for 'husmann'. 
                        It is variously defined as cottager, cottier, cottar, crofter 
                        and cotter. Most of us use the word cotter. 
                        The term smallholder carries the implication of ownership, 
                        which is far from the husmann's case. 
                        Many cotter's places became smallholdings when the 
                        cotter was able to buy it. An tenant farmer is far too 
                        grand for the husmann's position. 
                        The husmann was allowed to erect his
                        house on encumbered land, usually in return for farm labour. 
                        Then there is the problem of 'med jord' and 'uten jord'. 
                        Such land as he could use was essentially for his own 
                        domestic need and not farming per se.
                        (Olav Kringhaug at the Noway-L January 29 2005)"
husmann med jord        person (a cottier) who rented a house with small plot of 
                        land on a lager farm

 

Above comes from one of the dictionary websites that specializes in older mostly genealogical terms. Here is a link

 

https://otjoerge.wordpress.com/norwegian-american-dictionary/

Endret Mars 21, 2020 av Anton Hagelee

[Mark Goddard]

Continued Thanks!!