Request for help locating great-grandfather in Larvik in mid-1800s

[Louise Ober]

16 hours ago, Inger Hohler said:

Hi Louise, looks like you have a nut to crack here.
I do not have Ancestry access, so I cannot see the petition records.
How do you know his father's first name was Henry? It seems unlikely to me that any official papers would list only the father's first name and no other information about the father or parents.

You may know this already, but someone "coming from Larvik" may have been used to denote a person coming from a much larger area than the Larvik parish.
Larvik the parish is much smaller than Larvik the municipality (Larvik kommune), which is much smaller than the Larvik Countship (Grevskapet Larvik/Laurvig) which became part of the Jarlsberg and Larvik Amt in 1821. I live in Sandefjord, the town just north of Larvik, and my maternal grandmother's side is from Larvik the municipality. If you want to search for births in what would possibly have been called Larvik in 1850, you need to include at least Tjølling and Stavern, possibly even all of Vestfold south of and including Tønsberg.
And if so, there is an interesting candidate born January 12th 1833 in Tønsberg. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000036196283
Father's name Thor Henrich Brun, son's name Thorvald Henrich Johan (Brun) Note: This candidate has been excluded as he died as a child, see Anne Tonby's entry below.

There may be a distinction between "born in/at" and "coming from". If the phrase is not "place of birth", he or his family may have moved to the Larvik area after his birth.

 

This may be the ship Bellona https://digitaltmuseum.no/021176790650/bellona-1850 
I see from the newspaper "Christiansands Stiftsavis" December 18th 1851 that Bellona is listed as an incoming ship leaving Hull (in England) December 5th, and from Arendal. The collection of online newspapers is not complete.



 

Hello Inger, Thank you so much for providing such thoughtful comments.  Here are my replies:

(1) Sven forwarded a picture of William's US petition for citizenship, as well as a Massachusetts record where William listed his father's name as "Henry Brown." So these records are all in English provided in the US. I don't have any record of his relatives in Norwegian.  

(2) I found your comments very interesting and educational, comparing Larvik the parish, with Larvik the municpality, and Larvik the county. Unfortunately, I don't know which "Larvik" he came from. But I see it's important to widen the search to include other places in Vestvold.

(3) I really appreciate your looking up records in Tønsberg and finding "Thor Henrich Brunch," and was disappointed to see that this person died as a child at the age of 4.  😞 

(4) My great-aunt wrote that her father was "born in" Larvig, but I'm sure there are inaccuracies as to how things are worded. It is certainly possible that Wiliam's family came from outside of Larvik at some point. 

(5) Thank you for the information about the Bellona.  

 

With appreciation, Louise

 

[Louise Ober]

16 hours ago, Anne Tonby said:

Thorvald Henrich Johan died in 1837 at the age of 4

Tønsberg kirkebøker, SAKO/A-330/F/Fa/L0006: Ministerialbok nr. I 6, 1836-1844, s. 360
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051017040176

 

Anne, thank you for this crucial update!

[Anton Hagelee]

In the 1855  Massachusetts State Census, Carl found William Brown and Jacob Brown. Probably brothers. In the 1860 US Census Carl found an additional brother , James born about 1835 also in Norway. Finding the whereabouts of Jacob and James after 1860 has been difficult. However I wonder if James changed his last name and became James Hallerson. Here is the data on James Hallerson. He seems from my vantage point to fit James Brown. He married but did not have children that I have been able to find. But he has a niece  Emma born in Norway in 1869 and living with he and his wife in the 1880 Census. He seems to have lived his life in Gloucester, Essex, Massachusetts. I have not yet been able to trace this James back to Norway which is a bummer.

 

James Hallerson

in the U.S., Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)

Name:James Hallerson

Naturalization Age:27

Record Type:Naturalization

Birth Date:2 Mar 1838

Birth Place:Norway

Naturalization Date:24 Nov 1865

Court District:Massachusetts

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/3608025:1629

 

1900 US Census, Links to 1910, 1880 and FAG on the side of the 1900 US Census 

 

https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:M9RM-MGF

 

In the 1910 Census, Emma is married and named Weatherbee. Has children as well. Here is her marriage record.

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/14120185:2511

 

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LYPH-NMS

 

 

Endret Juni 15, 2022 av Anton Hagelee

[Louise Ober]

3 hours ago, Anton Hagelee said:

 

It does not solve the real problem, but it might shed some light on who are the Brown brothers. In the 1860 Census posted by Carl is a Gunder Krabel. He is likely Gunder Johannesen born 15 Aug 1823 in Kragero, Telemark. 

 

Gunder Johannesen

in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:Gunder Johannesen

Gender:Male

Birth Date:15 Aug 1823

Baptism Date:31 Aug 1823

Baptism Place:Kragero, Telemark, Norway

Father:Johannes Simensen

Mother:Elen Marie Elevsdr

FHL Film Number:126947

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/13241651:60092?_phsrc=twO10&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=gunder&ml_rpos=1&queryId=9a0eeb1c5b5ddfeca1400a4b635eb749

 

Nr 18

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061204030100

 

His sister Inger Marie Krabel also settled in Essex.

 

 

Anton, This is all so interesting. It looks like a younger brother (or cousin, even), James, joined Jacob and William in Boston. It makes sense that the Norwegian guys worked together as fisherman and hung out together, including with fellow countrymen Gunder Krabel and his sister, Marie.  The ages are probably not accurate, as we think Jacob was older than William (who would have been 27, not 34, during this 1960 census). Thank you so much!

[Louise Ober]

11 hours ago, Richard Olsen said:

Louise Ober

 

I don't want to confuse things further, but here is my experience...

 

One of my great- grandfathers resided in Boston. His petition is full of errors or lies.

1. he was 9 years older than stated on the petition

2. he arrived in the United States years later than stated on the petition

3. his birth year and birthplace are wrong

(Yes, he is the right person, confirmed by DNA)

 

According to the petition he arrived in the USA at age 15, his actual age was 29. Here is my opinion - a foreign-language speaker is asked when he first arrived in the USA. Being a sailor, he gives the date that he first set foot in the USA as a sailor, and not the date of arrival for settlement.

 

He might have arrived in the USA as a sailor, which means it is probable that he "jumped-ship", which means no immigration record on him. MANY young Norwegians (and others) jumped-ship, but most returned to Norway.

 

Here is what I found in the general area in Norway:

1. Henrik Vilhelm Bruun, born 1807 in Kristiansand, married 1837 in Agder (these places are in bordering counties). Possible candidate for William Henry Brown's father. I don't know if they ever lived in Larvik.

 

Did you find the following?

1. William's marriage record

2. William's death record or obituary

3. His child(ren) marriage record

4. Census records

5. His children's death records

At times, these records provide information such as William's birthplace...

Depending on how strong your interest is, you may have to turn to DNA.

 

 

Hi Richard, Thank you for your responses.  I undertand that there is a lot of bad information floating around - and I recognize that sailors arriving in the US may have provided incorrect information. 

Henrik Wilhelm Bruun is a very close name to the person I'm looking for -  I suppose he could have been William's father, even though this date of his marriage is AFTER William was born in 1833. 

 

I have looked through William's US records regarding his marriage in 1861 to the American Melissa Morgan, his death in 1919 (confirmed by his daughter Clara), the list of his 13 children (7 of whom survived into adulthood), and the census records in the Boston Mass area that show where he lived and with whom.  

 

At this point I have a lot of information from the US side but very little from the Norwegian side.  I wonder whether he changed his name to "Brown" when he came to the US in 1850, and whether his name was Bruun, Jacobsen (after his dad), or somthing else in Norway. 

 

Thank you so much for your help! - Louise

[Per.H.Skaug]

There is a James Jacob Brown, Sea captain, who died 28 Oct 1866 in Brooklyn and was born around 1826 in Drøbak, Norway https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WQN-SDL?treeref=GXX8-FJQ

 

While New York is not Massachussets and Drøbak is on the other side of the Oslo fjord, could this be a person worth looking into? The original death certificate is not viewable on FS, but it might be on ancestry?

[Sven Hjortland]

5 timer siden, Per.H.Skaug skrev:

There is a James Jacob Brown, Sea captain, who died 28 Oct 1866 in Brooklyn and was born around 1826 in Drøbak, Norway

?? https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000038799629

[Per.H.Skaug]

Here is a Captain Henry Brown who might be the brother of James Jacob Brown/Jens Jacob Hansen that Sven Hjortland found. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/33393955/henry-h-brown Here he is supposed to be in Norway as Henrich Julius Hansen https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MFRJ-DCP

 

However, there is something strange about how the family is listed on familysearch, where the father is Hans Hansen and the mother is variously listed as Anne Mathea Knudsdatter or Anne Mathea Henrichsdatter. It may be that these are two separate families that has been conflated into one, or it may be that some of the names have been misprinted (I have not looked at the orginals). It is very clear that Anne Matheas mother is the incorrect woman in the FS record, as the mother is supposed to be born 24 years after the daughter!!!

 

So we have what may be 2 brothers Henry/Henrich and James Jacob Hansen/Brown who both ended in the US, and both around or before the civil war. This does absolutely not mean there is any relationship with Louise's family, but the name combinations Henrich and Brown might be an indication of some linkages? There is of course a substantial distance between Larvik and Drøbak, but since they were all seafaring, it is not that impossible.

 

[Louise Ober]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:10 AM, Sven Hjortland said:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000036049635

Ivar and Sven,

 

Thank you for the links to these parish records.

 

So if I understand these 2 reports correctly, a man in Larvik called William ("Wilhemsen") Brown (of unknown age) had a son there in 1830. The son was named Carl Martin William, and later at the age of 48, Carl Martin William (Brown) married Constance Emilie Hagen in 1878.  And if that is correct, neither the father (William Brown) nor the son (Carl Martin William Brown) could be the William Henry Brown I'm looking for, because William Henry Brown could not have fathered a child in 1830, and he was already married and living in Boston in 1878.  

 

Is that a correct interpretation of these parish records? 

[Louise Ober]

Small update:  The Citizenship Petition of William Brown declares that he arrived in New York in 1850, not Boston.  Looking at the ship records again, I see that there was one bark/ship that sailed from Larvik (not Arendal) on April 7 and arrived in New York on June 11.  It was the Bark  Admiral Peter Tordenskiold. This is the only ship that sailed from Larvik to New York in 1850, so I think it is likely the one that would have been most accessible/appealing to a teenager from Larvik! 

[Louise Ober]

(unfortunately I cannot find a passenger list for this ship)

[Louise Ober]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:38 AM, Richard Olsen said:

I checked the baptism records for Larvik  from 1828 - 1840. Nothing remotely close to William Henry.

 

I checked confirmation records from 1843 to 1847, also nothing.

The closet was a Hans Henrik Bruun, born 1829. Later, I will check 1848 -

Hi Richard,  Is it possible there would be a record of his emigration from Larvik around 1850 (when he sailed to New York)?  I saw a reference in some parish records to those sorts of statistics (in and out migration). 

[Louise Ober]

On 6/14/2022 at 3:49 PM, Anton Hagelee said:

 

It does not solve the real problem, but it might shed some light on who are the Brown brothers. In the 1860 Census posted by Carl is a Gunder Krabel. He is likely Gunder Johannesen born 15 Aug 1823 in Kragero, Telemark. 

 

Gunder Johannesen

in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:Gunder Johannesen

Gender:Male

Birth Date:15 Aug 1823

Baptism Date:31 Aug 1823

Baptism Place:Kragero, Telemark, Norway

Father:Johannes Simensen

Mother:Elen Marie Elevsdr

FHL Film Number:126947

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/13241651:60092?_phsrc=twO10&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=gunder&ml_rpos=1&queryId=9a0eeb1c5b5ddfeca1400a4b635eb749

 

Nr 18

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061204030100

 

His sister Inger Marie Krabel also settled in Essex.

 

 

Hi Anton 

 

This is very interesting, thank you.  It looks like William and his two brothers (Jacob and James) befriended some other Norwegian fisherman/sailors, Gunder Krabel/Johannesen and mayve also Andrew Eveson. Gunder's younger sister Marie (Mary) is also probably listed although it says she is from Massiachusetts. 

[Inger Hohler]

Quote

Question: you have indicated that William's birthplace reads "Laurvig, Norway." I assume that is the same as Larvik? 

Yes, Laurvig is the old spelling of Larvik.

It is interesting to read that the ship "Admiral Peter Tordenskiold" sailed from Laurvig to New York in 1850. There is no information about who owned that ship, or who the captain was, before 1856 in DigitalMuseet. It was built in 1848, though. https://digitaltmuseum.org/021176789496/admiral-peter-tordenskjold-1848

In Norway around 1850, an inherited last name was associated with coming from a well-to-do family. Of course, well-to-do people may fall on hard times. Those that did often shed the inheritable surname in the first generation not born to wealth, and started using their a patronym based last name signalling their father's name. The last name Brown can be invented. The prefix 'Brun' which has the modern meaning brown, but which used to be a male name, occurs in a few placenames in areas that might be included in the wider meanings of Larvik. Examples: Brunlanes and Brunstad.

 

[Richard Olsen]

12 hours ago, Louise Ober said:

Hi Richard,  Is it possible there would be a record of his emigration from Larvik around 1850 (when he sailed to New York)?  I saw a reference in some parish records to those sorts of statistics (in and out migration). 

 

After checking the baptism and confirmation records, I checked the in-and-out migration and leaving the church records. Nothing.

 

The reality is that William Henry Brown could have completely changed his full name, the original being nothing close to that name.

 

I am checking to see if he is listed in the seamen rolls. There is nothing in Larvik, so nearby communities need to be checked.

13 hours ago, Louise Ober said:

Looking at the ship records again, I see that there was one bark/ship that sailed from Larvik (not Arendal) on April 7 and arrived in New York on June 11.  It was the Bark  Admiral Peter Tordenskiold. This is the only ship that sailed from Larvik to New York in 1850, so I think it is likely the one that would have been most accessible/appealing to a teenager from Larvik! 

 

Is it an immigrant ship?

 

There were several men named William H Brown residing in Massachusetts during that time period. Also, William, Jacob, and James (in 1855 and 1860) were resding in Gloucester, Essex, Massachusetts, not Boston. Of course, it is possible that William later relocated to Boston.

 

There should be more records on William H Brown's citizenship petition and approval. There should be witnesses statements, and they may give a clue to William Henry's identity (such as if any of the witnesses were related to William)

[Anton Hagelee]

13 hours ago, Louise Ober said:

Small update:  The Citizenship Petition of William Brown declares that he arrived in New York in 1850, not Boston.  Looking at the ship records again, I see that there was one bark/ship that sailed from Larvik (not Arendal) on April 7 and arrived in New York on June 11.  It was the Bark  Admiral Peter Tordenskiold. This is the only ship that sailed from Larvik to New York in 1850, so I think it is likely the one that would have been most accessible/appealing to a teenager from Larvik! 

 

You may find this information from the NorwayHeritage site on the Admiral Peter Tordenskiold interesting. No passenger list found on the Admiral Peter Tordenskiold on Norway Heritage. 

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_year.asp?ye=1850

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=aptsd

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/ships.asp?articleid=22&zoneid=5#bark

 

 

[Richard Olsen]

Perhaps someone will read this and give a summary translation to Louise. It is from Lister og Mandals in Vestre Agder. There is more to the article. I believe the second part belongs to  the article. Perhaps I am wrong.

 

I know it says something like - William Henry Brown returned to his beloved........

 

It may be nothing, or it may be a clue.

 

Louise, if possible for you, you could check through Boston newspapers. If you know someone subscribed to Ancestry, MyHeritage  or Newspapers.com, you could ask them to do a search.

 

https://www.nb.no/items/f07446ed177ffeebfc2ba88f3dfab327?page=0&searchText="William Henry Brown"

 

 

Endret Juni 16, 2022 av Richard Olsen

[Carl Nilsen]

22 minutter siden, Richard Olsen skrev:

Perhaps someone will read this and give a summary translation to Louise. It is from Lister og Mandals in Vestre Agder. There is more to the article. I believe the second part belongs to  the article. Perhaps I am wrong.

 

I know it says something like - William Henry Brown returned to his beloved........

 

It may be nothing, or it may be a clue.

Seems like an old style serial (fiction), in which one of the characters’ names is WHB.

Endret Juni 16, 2022 av Carl Nilsen

[Richard Olsen]

Hopefully, I did not mess it up by joining the 2 parts. The more I observe, the more I believe that the first part stands alone.

[Inger Hohler]

@Richard Olson, the citation about a William Henry Brown appears to be from a work of fiction. It is the last episode of a serial called Hedersgjæsten (Guest of honor). It can be hard to know without having seen these serials before.

[Richard Olsen]

Thank you Carl Nilsen and Inger Hohler

 

William Brown in the 1860 census (with Jacob and James) is listed in the 1870 census in the same community, and still a fisherman. So, no brothers for William Henry Brown.

 

There was another William Henry Brown in Boston, born 1833 and married 1864. It appears that he did not remain in Boston

 

There is a William H Brown in Boston who was in the military in the 1860s. Yes, involved in that war. It must be William Henry Brown.

 

William Henry Brown (W H Brown) was naturalized in August 1869 (can't remember the exact date)

 

Immigration: W H Brown - Year 1887 -- Ship: Pavonia(spelling?)

 

Here is another possibility: W H B born elsewhere, arrived in Larvik and was a foster child or was adopted or relocated there to work on a farm. There is obviously a Larvik connection. But, the possibilities appear to be endless.

 

Louise, I hate to be a downer, but the trail on WHB appears to have come to an end.....unless you can find a huge horseshoe.

 

 

[Louise Ober]

9 hours ago, Inger Hohler said:

Yes, Laurvig is the old spelling of Larvik.

It is interesting to read that the ship "Admiral Peter Tordenskiold" sailed from Laurvig to New York in 1850. There is no information about who owned that ship, or who the captain was, before 1856 in DigitalMuseet. It was built in 1848, though. https://digitaltmuseum.org/021176789496/admiral-peter-tordenskjold-1848

In Norway around 1850, an inherited last name was associated with coming from a well-to-do family. Of course, well-to-do people may fall on hard times. Those that did often shed the inheritable surname in the first generation not born to wealth, and started using their a patronym based last name signalling their father's name. The last name Brown can be invented. The prefix 'Brun' which has the modern meaning brown, but which used to be a male name, occurs in a few placenames in areas that might be included in the wider meanings of Larvik. Examples: Brunlanes and Brunstad.

 

Hi Inger,

 

Thank you for your research and comments.  My responses: 

 

(1)  I’m glad to know that Laurvig is the older spelling of Larvik.

(2)  The English-language Norway Heritage site (links thoughtfully provided by Anton) has more details about the Admiral Peter Tordenskiold, including the name of the captain on the 1850 trip from Larvik to New York, Captain Falkenberg.  (But still, sadly, no passenger list.)

(3)  I understand from your post (and your prior post) that many rural Norwegian families in the 1850s did not have a regular "inherited" surname (it seems like consistent surnames either came later, were more typical of urban areas, or were more apt to appear in wealthier families).  Perhaps as you suggest, William created the name “Brown” when he arrived in New York, basing it on one of the Vestfold farms or the municipality he came from. 

(4) I’m excited that you are familiar with (and close to) the Larvik area, and I appreciate your explanation of the different types of civic divisions (i.e., parish, municipality, county).  You mentioned places near Larvik called Brunlanes and Brunstad.  Can these places be searched for a William Brown or William Henry Brown?  (I know you found a “Henrich Brun” in Tonsberg  - too bad the son died! - but I don’t know how to search the Norwegian-language catalogues to see if he existed in another Larvik "suburb"). 

(5) Another thought I had (based on your observation that Brown/Brun may have been based on a local place):   is there any way to look at maps of farms in the area from 1850?  Would any of the Larvik-area maps show names of the residents or heads of household? 

Thank you, again! 

[Anton Hagelee]

36 minutes ago, Louise Ober said:

3)  I understand from your post (and your prior post) that many rural Norwegian families in the 1850s did not have a regular "inherited" surname (it seems like consistent surnames either came later, were more typical of urban areas, or were more apt to appear in wealthier families).  Perhaps as you suggest, William created the name “Brown” when he arrived in New York, basing it on one of the Vestfold farms or the municipality he came from. 

 

I know you directed your questions to Inger, but I will jump in here and answer a few of them. I am sure Inger can provide better answers tomorrow as well. Here is a discussion on naming practices in Norway.

 

'In Norway prior to the 1860s families did not use fixed surnames. They used a patronymic pattern in which children were named after their father. Hence, John Andersen = John, the son of Anders."

 

From 

https://norwegianridge.com/2011/07/10/understanding-norwegian-naming-patterns/

 

As well as the last name in America coming from the fathers first name, Norwegian emigrants used the name of the farm they were associated with in Norway. For example my last name of Hagelee comes from the farm my grandfather was born on Høgeli. 

 

And in a search for the origins  of the early settlers of  Hickory Grove Township, Wisconsin a Ole Brown was found to have been  a  Ole Syverson Brunsbakke born in Hedalen, Sør-Aurdal 12.9.1824.

 

The last name of a parish or sub-parish can also be used. For example the parish of Brunlanes has produced the last name of Brown in America. 

 

 

 

 

[Anton Hagelee]

It might be useful to also discuss a little of the geography of Vestfold. Vestfold until a very recent change in Norway  combined several Counties (Fylke in Norwegian). Thus Vestfold and Telemark were folded together. Made the life of genealogy a bit more difficult but so be it.

 

Most og the searches we do involve the County such as Vestfold. Those counties consisted of parishes (prestegjeld) which usually also has sub-parishes (sogn). Brunlanes and Larvik are both parishes and not far apart. 

 

Here is a good Norwegian-English dictionary. Look up prestgjeld for an explanation. 

 

https://otjoerge.wordpress.com/norwegian-american-dictionary/p-t/#P

 

This is a good look at the map of Vestfold and shows the parishes as well. 

 

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Vestfold_County,_Norway_Genealogy

 

You can click on the parish names and get a description of the parish and its sub-parishes. 

 

 

 

 

Endret Juni 17, 2022 av Anton Hagelee

[Anton Hagelee]

One other comment, I would make is to not get too discouraged that you have not yet found the ancestry of your William Henry Brown. I have seen posters on this site and the forum on NorwayHeritage  post and repost in  their search for ancestors. Yes some of them never succeeded but others have been successful after years of trying. 

 

In my case i encountered a so called brick wall. It was finally solved after years of searching by using a Y-DNA test. I tested on Familytree DNA and posted the results there and on NorwayProject. After two years of waiting I finally got a close match (called Genetic Distance GD ) of 1. Meaning a relationship in 6 generations or less. The match and I compared our family trees and found a common ancestor. 

 

So keep on working on the paper trail, consider using DNA technology and do not give up the search.