Toppliste

It is extremely important to be accurate, i.e. to distinguish what information is from written sources (and which written sources), what information is family tradition and what information is just assumptions. If we are to help, we really need to able to distinguish these things. For example, you say that the baptism certificate says that he was born 1829, but it's not. It says that he was 27 years old (in 1856). Thus, 1829 is a calculated birth year, and you can't be sure that it's correct, at least not based on this baptism certificate. He may have been born 1828, though still 27 in early 1856. The age 27 can also be inaccurate. Above, it is stated that he died 23rd February 1895 at the age of 67. Is this what the death certificate actually says? In that case, his birth year could be calculated as 1827 or 1828, depending on whether he had turned 67 in 1895 or was to turn 68 in 1895. As far as I understand: The person in question is in Australian sources only known as Charles Peterson. Family tradition says his family originated from Sweden and Norway. Charles Peterson and his wife Ellen arrived in Melbourne 24th January 1856 from New York on the ship Gertrude. It can be established that the couple were married in Troy, New York, 22nd August 1855. Their oldest child Caroline was born 14th December 1855, and on her birth certificate it is stated that Charles Peterson was a miner, and that he was 27 years of age and born in Arendal, Norway. Moreover, I understand that there's no real evidence that Johan Carl (Petersen) Palmstrøm was identical with Charles Peterson. Instead, it is just an assumption that the two were identical. Johan Carl (Petersen) Palmstrøm has drawn attention because 1) he has a name that could be changed to Charles Peterson, 2) he was born in Arendal, 3) he was born at a suitable time, 4) his family seems to be of Swedish origin. However, you can't rule out the possibility that other persons could fit with Charles Peterson. Let's question the information that Charles Peterson was born in "Arendal". 1) Could "Arendal" refer to other places than the city of Arendal? Yes, for instance there is a parish called Arnadal, which was commonly written Arendal at the time. Arndal is also a farm name in Åmot parish in Hedmark, but I think we can rule out that possibility. 2) Did the official who wrote the baptism certificate perceive Charles Peterson's place of birth correctly, and did he write it correctly? Charles Peterson probably gave the information orally, and so this could be an inaccurate piece of information, unless it can be verified by other sources. 3) Did Charles Peterson really name his place of birth, or did he name the place where he grew up or the place from where he left Norway? There are several examples that Norwegians in America named the nearest city as their place of birth, although they actually was born somewhere else. My point is: It is not established as a 100 % reliable fact that Charles Peterson was born 1829 in the city of Arendal. Both year of birth and place of birth may be inaccurate. Hence, there might be other candidates to fill the role as Charles Peterson. Keep in mind that Ann-Mary Engum above has found the probate of Peter Andreas Palmstrøm (1858), which doesn't mention Johan Carl Palmstrøm at all. This strongly indicates that Johan Carl Palmstrøm was dead, or at least that his family was convinced that he was dead. Thus, if there's no evidence that Johan Carl Palmstrøm was still alive he 1858, he should be considered dead at the time. Your strategy seems to be to find Johan Carl Palmstrøm's death, and if you're not able to find it, you want to conclude that Johan Carl Palmstrøm was identical with Charles Peterson. I would warn against such a strategy, because the absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence).

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070314620189 Tror Guri (nr. 32 på høyre side) og broren hennes, Ole (nr. 29 venstre side), ble konfirmert samtidig i Lunder kirke i 1832. Ole er 15,5 år og bor trolig hjemme, mens alderen til Guri oppgis til 18,5 år og hun er muligens bosatt der hun jobber. Farsnavnet til moren hennes oppgis til Olsdatter, men jeg tror det er rett Guri jeg har funnet. Astrid PS: ser at begge ble vaksinert på samme dag i september 1818.

Oslo fylke, Grønland i Oslo, Ministerialbok nr. 18 (1911-1945), Fødte og døpte 1918, Side 181 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/25786/186 Nr. 82 Oslo fylke, Grønland i Oslo, Ministerialbok nr. 17 (1906-1934), Viede 1917, Side 176 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/25785/181

Jonny Lorang var døpt i Grønland menighet - se nr. 18: Oslo fylke, Gamlebyen (Oslo) i Oslo, Ministerialbok nr. 12 (1908-1941), Konfirmerte 1932, Side 190 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/25780/195

"Fødselsstiftelsen"

Oh my gosh! I’m absolutely astounded by all the information I’ve received. Thanks so much to all of you❤️ I’m forever grateful for all the information and links you have shared with me. It’s almost like another world has opened up that I never knew existed. Words cannot express how thankful I am to you all for reaching out to me. Our family lore was always that Anne Hansdatter came to America by herself in 1869. Now I learn that her stepfather, mother, and sister came with her!. Now I need to find out how she ended up in Minnesota and what happened to her mother and her sister. What a a wonderful story this is - so much gratitude to all of you for sharing this family history with me. I never could have found this information on my own. Many, many thanks❤️ Sarah McKasson

No, he could have moved several times, so his death may have taken place elsewhere. And although he has not been identified in the 1865 census, he could be absent in the census for other reasons. The census in itself is not 100 % complete, and he may hide behind a misspelled name.

Eg antar at slektsamanhangen mellom Halvor Olsen og Ingeborg Klemetsdtr. er slik: Sams oldefar Jens Østensen Nistad Hans Jensen Nistad/Grønhaug og Gjertrud Jensdtr. Nistad var sysken Barbro Hansdtr. var syskenborn med Klemet Rasmussen, son til Giertrud Jensdtr. og Rasmus Nielsen. Han er då truleg Ingeborg Klemetsdtr. Rivedal sin far. Klemet Rasmussen Nistad var nemnt med formynder i skiftet etter faren Rasmus frå 1728: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081126630513 Eit anna døme på inngifte i denne slekta, er at Barbro Hansdtr. si syster, Gjertrud Hansdtr. vart gift med syskenbornet sitt frå Nistad, Østen Rasmussen. Dei fekk løyve til giftermål i 1732: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/da20120914661164

No, but if the family didn't know his whereabouts and suspected he was still alive he would have been mentioned as such, i.e. "presumably in US or Australia" (or anywhere else for that matter) or "hasn't been heard from since he left in 1854". As Kristian states; "This strongly indicates that Johan Carl Palmstrøm was dead, or at least that his family was convinced that he was dead."

Normally, the closer to the event (read; CP's birth) the information given by the said person tends to be more accurate. The two events from 1856 and 1859 also states approximately the same age, thus it will be interesting to see the other children's birth reg's. and what age was recorded for CP.

Tusen takk for hjelpen Ann-Mary 🙂

Ministerialboken Nr 32 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8536/409

So far Charles Peterson birth year varies from ca. 1827-28 to 1832-33. Death: 67 years The Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985 Name: Chas Peterson Birth Year: abt 1828 Age: 67 Death Place: Rupanyup, Victoria Registration Year: 1895 Registration Place: Victoria Registration Number: 3358 The Australia Cemetery Index, 1808-2007 Name: Charles Peterson Death Age: 67 Birth Date: abt 1828 Death Date: 28 Feb 1895 Cemetery: Rupanyup Cemetery Location: Rupanyup, Victoria Arrival 24. January 1856: 23 years The Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 Name: C Peterson Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Age: 23 Arrival Date: 24 Jan 1856 Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia Departure Port: New York Ship: Gertrude Nationality: Foreigner Charlotte's birth reg. 10. January 1859: 27 years = ca 1832 - see post # 48 The Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922 Name: Charlotte Peterson Birth Date: Abt 1859 Birth Place: Durham Lead, Victoria Registration Year: 1859 Registration Place: Victoria, Australia Father: Charles Peterson Mother: Ellen Cavanagh Registration Number: 2455

On Clements birth reg. it states he was born 11th February 1859 hence Charlotte could not have been born Dec 1858. Notice; Ellen's age is the same on Clement's as on Charlotte's birth reg. = 22 years old. It looks as a few birth reg's. in this district are done in Dec 1859 - and it's the same Registrar who has signed them.

Oh ok, I see what you mean now. I’ll take photos of all the children’s certificates my parents have and put them on here tomorrow for you. Thx again Egil. Mark Peterson

It's hard to see but I think it says "Troy, New York, North America" and the year 1856.

You have stated this 2 times now, but failed to say why. What evidence do you have to prove your point.

It's not the best quality, but I hope it's readable. Column 1 2 3 4 5 6 Column 1 2 Column 3 4 5 6 Column 7 8 9 10 Column 7 8 9 10

No one has stated she was born on the ship - I'm merely quoting from the document you provided regarding Charlotte (in the first column it states date and place, presumably her birth) - thus why I was asking to see the head columns to be able to determine what each columns entail.

Sorry but that is how I received it from another person looking into Charles Peterson. I will check with my parents to see if they have a full copy. Thx Mark Peterson

Thank you - corrected.

Ikke 1932,men 1832.

It looks like the birth is registered (or something is) 10th January 1859 (3rd column from right) - which probably means Charles age is 27 at the point of reg. (27) = born ca 1832. Mark; could you please enclose the head of the columns so we can see what they entail?

It states she was born in South Durham 14 Dec 1855 - how is that possible if they arrived on the ship "Gertrude" from New York 24 January 1856?

I will get back to you with the death certificate info shortly. Thx Mark Peterson

Tusen takk til alle - saken er løst

The Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 Name: C Peterson Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Age: 23 Arrival Date: 24 Jan 1856 Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia Departure Port: New York Ship: Gertrude Nationality: Foreigner At the arrival his age was 23 (born ca 1833).

Står det at de ble viet kl 5 i sakr(sakristiet) ?

Why did you state "it's on his Australian Death Certfificate" ? Is it correct to understand it is not, given the information in the previous post's?

I 1918 bodde Magnus Johnsen i Enebakkveien 50 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/39919/869 I 1914 bodde han i Danmarksgate 4 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/49247/680

Konfirmasjonen til Harry Emanuel Nr 20 Han var født på Kvinneklinikken https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/25780/163 Nr 2 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/1848/111 Hva står det ved konfirmasjonen til Jonny Lorang? Fant ham ikke konfirmert i Gamlebyen, men kan ha oversett ham.

I 1923 bodde i alle fall familien i Ryenbergveien 49b i Gamlebyen. Søkeresultat fra kommunal folketelling i Kristiania 1.12.1923 Magnus Johan Johnsen 24.10.1896 Kristiania m g Skofabrikarb. Den Norske Skofabrik Ryenbergveien 49 b - Bygning 2 06 Oslo (Gamlebyen) Bunke327k Svanhild Eugenie Johnsen 30.06.1898 Kristiania k g Husmor Ryenbergveien 49 b - Bygning 2 06 Oslo (Gamlebyen) Bunke327k Harry Emanuel Johnsen 26.12.1913 Kristiania m Barn ug Ryenbergveien 49 b - Bygning 2 06 Oslo (Gamlebyen) Bunke327k Jonny Lorang Johnsen 23.12.1917 Kristiania m Barn ug Ryenbergveien 49 b - Bygning 2 06 Oslo (Gamlebyen) Bunke327k

SAB, Sunnfjord Sorenskrivararkiv, F/Fa, 1748-1751, s. 44b-45a Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rg20090401640047 Ole Nilsen Bøgstad lader stevne Hans Jensen Grønhaugen fordi hand icke vil tilstaae ham rætighed af de 5 ? i Kaarestad, som citantens hustrue Aagate Halvordsdatter er tilhørende, og arvelig etter skiftebrev, af 24 marti 1733, arvelig er tilfalden. Den indstefnede Hans Grønhaug svarede at hand tilstaar at ???? Citanten penge for sine 5 l: gods, etter den i skiftebrevet satte ?????, ???? Ole Bøgstad betaler de 5 ? hand er ham skyldig til hans myntlinger, Knud Halvorsen, Ole Halvorsen og Mari Halvorsdatter, hos hans ?????, etter same skiftebrev tilkommen. Partene begierte dom som til i morgen bliver optagen SAB, Sunnfjord Sorenskrivararkiv, F/Fa, 1748-1751, s. 45b-46a Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rg20090401640048 Og her er dommen. Jeg tolker at de 3 andre barna bør være fra Halvor Knudsens siste ekteskapet med Barbro Hansdatter selv om dette ikke direkte fremgår. Ingen av disse barna kan ha vært myndige på dette tidspunkt, og det er åpenbart et stort sprang i alder mellom kona til Ole Bygstad, Agate Halvorsdatter og disse 3 siste barna, Knud, Ole og Mari.

Bingo :-) Mange takk.

Nr 315 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7144/207?indexing=

Kan det stå Fødselsstiftelsen?

Denne datteren Rakel er trolig oppkalt etter: "Truls Johannesson g. seg att m. Rakel Eriksdtr. Vik, d. 1760, 55 år. Truls d. 1764." Se Fjaler 1, side 204.

Du imponerer meg stadig vekk Carl. Dette var helt supert, og underbygger det jeg sa om at de beste slektsforskerene finner man her på forumet - helt gratis 😀 Mvh Ivar

So Helgøya is where she was living (with her mother, sister, and stepfather) just before she emigrated - which is certainly one important part in her history. But she was born at Rødholen in Trøgstad, just east of the village of Skjønhaug. For where this is, see this nifty Norwegian map (there are + and - buttons in the upper right-hand corner to zoom in and out): https://norgeskart.no/#!?project=seeiendom&layers=1002,1015&zoom=11&lat=6616749.69&lon=293866.97&markerLat=6616760.263414296&markerLon=295189.2354918775&panel=searchOptionsPanel&sok=Rødholen

The way to do this is to work backwards through the church books. Let's first look at the confirmation record (in post #3 above). This is from Nes clerical district, which includes Helgøya parish. If you click on the link and look at the first handwritten line (entry #47), you will see that it says (in translation): 9 October [1864], Anne Hansdtr [this is shorthand for Hansdatter], born 25/3 50 [note that, in Europe, day comes before month, so this is 25th of March 1850], place of birth Trygestad Prgld [Prgld is short for Prestegjeld, which means clerical district - a group of parishes sharing the same priest/minister], parents Hans Andersen and Ragnhild Kristensdtr, grade "very good" [i.e., she had been a very good student in her confirmation lessons], vaccinated 16/10 50 [=16th of October 1850] Now let's look at her birth record (in post #4 above). This is from the parish book for Trøgstad clerical district [spelled Trygestad in the confirmation record above], which is in Østfold county, about 25 miles southeast of Oslo (whereas Helgøya is about 60 miles north of Oslo). If you click on the link and look at entry 27, you will see that it says (in translation): born 25 March [1850], baptised 7 April [1850], name Anne, legitimate [i.e., her parents were married to each other], parents Hans Andersen and Ragnild Kristens. [i.e., Kristensdatter] of Rødholen farm. It then gives the names of the four godparents. Now to the census record (in post #5 above). This census record was taken at Mauerud øvre [upper Mauerud] farm in 1865. It shows Ole Syversen (age 29, born in Ringsaker) as the head of household; he's a farmer who owns his own farm [that is, not a tenant farmer]. Then we have Ragnhild Kristensdatter (age 48, born in Askim), his wife. And then we have two children in the household: Maren Hansdatter (age 23, born in Trygstad) and Anne Hansdatter (age 15, born in Trygstad), who are both marked as her (rather than their) children. Thus, both Maren and Anne were the daughters of Ragnhild Kristensdatter with her first husband Hans Andersen, and Ole Syversen is their stepfather. The emigration record (in post #6 above) is from Nes clerical district (again, the clerical district that includes Helgøya parish). If you look at entries 45-48, you will see that on 26 April 1869 farmer Ole Syversen Maurud (age 43), his wife Ragnild Christensdatter (age 60), and daughters Maren Hansdatter (age 26) and Anne Hansdatter (age 19) announced to the local authorities that they were leaving for America. Finally, look at the other emigration record (in post #7 above). This is from the Oslo emigration office (i.e., on their way from Helgøya to America). If you click on this link, you will see it saying that farmer Ole Syversen Mauro, age 32, from Næs [=Nes], left Oslo on 1 May 1869 for Chicago. There are a couple of further links. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/9/og00000000397652 shows Randi Kristensdatter, age 50, his wife; https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/9/og00000000397653 shows Maren, age 26, and https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/9/og00000000397654 shows Anne, age 19, all on the same voyage. So, the information we have is: Anne Hansdatter was the daughter of Hans Andersen and Ragnhild/Ragnild/Randi Kristensdatter, born 1850 at Rødholen in Trøgstad clerical district. Hans was already dead by 1865. Ragnhild was born in Askim clerical district about 1817 (from 1865 census) to 1819 (from Oslo emigration record). She and Hans had at least one other daughter, Maren, born in Trygstad around 1842 (from 1865 census) to 1843 (from emigration records). If there are any other siblings (either who died in infancy or had moved out by 1865), they would probably be in the Trøgstad birth registers of the 1840s and 1850s. We should also look for the marriage of Hans Andersen and Ragnhild Kristensdatter, either in Trøgstad or Askim (which is right next to Trøgstad in Østfold county) sometime before 1843. The marriage record may then tell us how old they were and who their parents were.

Eg har ein teori om at Ingeborg Klemetsdtr. kan vere dotter til Klemet Rasmusson Rivedal og kona Eli Olsdtr. Desse er nemnde i eit gammalt skifte frå Rivedal. Mor til Eli heitte Ingeborg, og oppkallingsreglar skulle då tilseie at dei kunne ha ei dotter med same namn. Men dette blir berre spekulasjonar. Eg finn heller ikkje noko om desse folka i bygdeboka. Tillegg: Sannsynlegvis er samanhengen slik:

Jonas Gustav Ahlstrøm må være død før 26.1.1856. Da mottok enken Anne Sophie 20 Spd. fra "Understøttelseskassen for uheldige Sømænd i Bergen": https://www.nb.no/items/ef33217fb0fab076424f6a73861a9926?page=5&searchText=ahlstrom~1

Be more specific about what kind of info/research you want. Many followers of this forum are probably able /willing to provide you with the info you want. "Is there some way to get notified that someone posted to my thread?" 1. Top righthand corner - click your name. 2. Account settings. 3. Notification settings.

In case of death it must have occurred after April 1854 since he moved to Kragerø that year - see Randi's post # 5

Is it transcribed as Arendal or do you actually have a copy of the death certificate? If the latter is the case could you scan and enclose it here?

Min erfaring fra gjennomgang av fogderegnskapsmateriale utover på 1700-tallet til rundt 1750/60 for ytre bygder i Romsdal, er at matriklene er mindre oppdaterte og til dels henger langt etter, enn de tilsvarende på slutten av 1600-tallet. Derimot kan "spesiallister" à la bønders mottak av korn i nødsårene på 1740-tallet, være virkelig gullgruver. Her har jeg funnet brukernavn som er praktisk talt ukjente i alle andre lister på samme tid. For bøndene som mottok korn måtte jo betale det tilbake, må vite. Så da var det nok viktig for fogden å ha navnet på rett mann. Og for de som hadde problemer med tilbakebetalingen, ble det satt opp restanselister. Så her har man gjerne både fornavn og patronymikon - det siste er det gjerne dårlig med i andre lister. De ytre bygdene i Romsdal har gjennomgående kirkebøker som begynner ut i 1750-årene, så derfor er slike lister svært verdifulle.

Jeg viser til den omtalte utlånslista: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20111003300003 Det later til at rullene som hovedregel er fra første halvdel av 1800-tallet, men at mikrofilmingen - i alle fall for Statsarkivet på Hamars vedkommende - også omfatter loddtrekningslister til omkring 1900. Det finnes tilsvarende mikrofilmserier fra de andre statsarkivene. Jeg antar at mønsteret er noenlunde likt. Husk at mikrofilmingen er nesten 60 år gammel, og den må ha vært begrenset både av hva som var avlevert på det tidspunktet, samt av gjeldende taushetsplikt på samme tidspunkt.

Da skal dette være ordnet. Etternavnene på plass også for alle mennene.

Du har rett i at lista over utlån fra Statsarkivet på Hamar (innlån til Riksarkivet), som finnes først på mikrofilm NH-0319, er sentral for å få identifisert de mikrofilmede rullene. Jeg regner med at det skal være forholdsvis greit å identifisere de mikrofilmede rullene mot utlånslista. Det vil imidlertid kunne være en større utfordring å identifisere de mikrofilmede rullene i dagens katalog, ettersom arkivet tydeligvis er ordnet på nytt, og da på en måte hvor ruller kan ha blitt flyttet på og fått andre betegnelser. For å få litt praktisk erfaring har jeg skilt ut 306 bilder som ser ut til å svare til stykke L1689 i serie Ke i arkivet som i dag heter Fylkesmannen i Oppland: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/db/browse?archives[]=no-a1450-03000000000759 Jeg har indeksert bildene på et svært detaljert nivå. Det kan være ønskelig å gjennomføre på samme måte, men det vil være tidkrevende: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/db/contents/59435 Jeg kan kort nevne "avvik" som jeg kom borti (se også merknadsfeltet på innholdssida): I dagens katalog (https://www.arkivportalen.no/search?under=SAH%2FFYO-002%2F1%2FK%2FKe%2FL1689) er det i stykke L1689 åtte enheter på mappenivå, hvorav den siste - 0008: Mannskapsrulle for Ringsaker 1833 - må være lagt sammen med de sju andre ved seneste ordning av arkivet. Denne mannskapsrullen finnes i alle fall ikke på mikrofilmene i tilknytning til de øvrige sju enhetene. Tiden vil vise om den dukker opp et annet sted på mikrofilmene. I så fall vil bildene bli lagt til stykke L1689. Av dagens katalog kan det se ut til at listene/rullene for Hadeland eskadron (av Akershusiske ridende jegerkorps) er flyttet fra sin tidligere plassering og lagt sammen med listene/rullene for Hadelandske kompani (av Sønnafjellske dragonregiment). Av praktiske årsaker har jeg imidlertid beholdt rekkefølgen fra mikrofilmen. Ifølge utlånslista (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20111003300004) var pr. 1961 "innlagt i samme pakke fra Kristians amt pakke 59: Liste over Eidsvoldske Compagnie av 1ste Aggershuuske Infanterie Regiment, fra februar 1808." Denne lista følger da også på mikrofilmen (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20111003300339), men i henhold til dagens katalog hører den ikke til i stykke L1689. Jeg håper jeg finner den et annet sted i katalogen. Dermed gjenstår "bare" 31 839 bilder! Jeg tør ikke love noe om når det blir tid til å gå gjennom resten. Det må antakelig bli små porsjoner nå og da. De store seriene i Riksarkivet med militærruller fra før 1800 finnes i arkivene Kommanderende general (KG I) med Det norske krigsdirektorium og Generalitets- og kommissariatskollegiet, Det kongelige norske kommissariatskollegium. Disse seriene finnes allerede i Digitalarkivet: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/db/browse?depository[]=27&start_year=&end_year=&tags[]=69&text= Det finnes nok mer rullemateriale i andre arkiver i Riksarkivet, enten som små serier eller som spredte enkeltruller, men meg bekjent finnes ikke noe av dette på mikrofilm, og vi har derfor ikke noe mer "på lager" for publisering. Jf. lenka i forrige avsnitt finnes det f.eks. én enkelt rulle - som er skanna - i arkivet etter 1. sønnafjelske dragonregiment, og det er også skanna en eske med ruller fra serien Krigsvesen i arkivet Rentekammeret inntil 1814, Realistisk ordnet avdeling. Her ser jeg av katalogen at det finnes ytterligere én eske med ruller - for legder i Bergen stift - som ikke er skanna.

1865 census: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038030000428 Anne's mother seems to have married for the second time. Anne is living on the farm Mauerud, can this be the same as Mourad in the US?